1 00:02:14,149 --> 00:02:17,166 We are in the presence of a legend with many faces 2 00:02:17,797 --> 00:02:20,893 loathed by many, admired deeply by others. 3 00:02:21,156 --> 00:02:23,205 Her name is still taboo in Germany. 4 00:02:24,540 --> 00:02:28,934 Leni Riefenstahl, the most influential filmmaker of the Third Reich, 5 00:02:29,713 --> 00:02:34,181 the last great surviving image maker of the Nazis. 6 00:02:38,209 --> 00:02:41,251 A film about Leni Riefenstahl, can content itself 7 00:02:41,251 --> 00:02:43,326 with updating the old prejudices. 8 00:02:43,905 --> 00:02:48,194 Or it can attempt to deconstruct her myth, and to look at it afresh 9 00:02:48,763 --> 00:02:51,913 A feminist pioneer or a woman of evil. 10 00:02:52,865 --> 00:02:55,181 One thing is certain, she is still 11 00:02:55,181 --> 00:02:58,801 the most famous female film director in the world. 12 00:03:11,245 --> 00:03:14,804 This film will approach her without preconceptions. 13 00:03:20,963 --> 00:03:24,399 What do you feel, looking at those pictures? 14 00:03:28,077 --> 00:03:34,124 Well, really as if the person in this picture is not me... 15 00:03:34,397 --> 00:03:35,885 ...but just some actress 16 00:03:36,997 --> 00:03:39,129 This innocence, enthusiasm... 17 00:03:39,426 --> 00:03:43,488 ...then the fall from fame, the great disappointment... 18 00:03:43,765 --> 00:03:45,691 ...how do you see all that today? 19 00:03:48,237 --> 00:03:52,911 It's all so long ago now, I've long since got over it 20 00:03:53,170 --> 00:03:55,646 I don't think about it anymore 21 00:03:55,863 --> 00:03:59,311 At my age... 22 00:03:59,550 --> 00:04:04,902 ...I'll be 90 this year... 23 00:04:05,195 --> 00:04:07,535 ...many decades have now gone by. 24 00:04:07,719 --> 00:04:09,668 They were bad times 25 00:04:09,989 --> 00:04:15,864 It's like another world but no longer live in that past 26 00:04:16,076 --> 00:04:20,027 Guest Dance Performance 27 00:04:25,167 --> 00:04:29,921 An Evening of Dance 28 00:04:32,221 --> 00:04:36,837 I really only wanted to go on stage as an experiment 29 00:04:37,103 --> 00:04:41,427 To see whether I would make a good dancer 30 00:04:41,646 --> 00:04:46,859 But I had such a huge success, I was immediately engaged by Max Reinhardt 31 00:04:47,249 --> 00:04:51,689 Then Prague wanted me, and Zurich. It was incredible, intoxicating 32 00:05:29,357 --> 00:05:32,577 It was incredible 33 00:05:32,727 --> 00:05:38,909 This station here at Nollendorfplatz totally changed my life 34 00:05:39,135 --> 00:05:42,148 I was standing here waiting for a train 35 00:05:42,532 --> 00:05:48,631 I had to go to the doctor. I had hurt my knee badly and couldn't dance 36 00:05:49,253 --> 00:05:54,032 I was impatient because the train was late 37 00:05:54,254 --> 00:05:59,674 But, as it drew in, I suddenly saw a poster for a film... 38 00:05:59,944 --> 00:06:01,338 ...'Mountain of Destiny' 39 00:06:01,653 --> 00:06:05,552 It showed a mountaineer stepping across a chasm 40 00:06:05,742 --> 00:06:08,577 I was so fascinated I missed the train 41 00:06:08,803 --> 00:06:11,147 I stood rooted to the spot 42 00:06:11,445 --> 00:06:17,340 I read: 'Mountain of Destiny' Mozartsaal Cinema, Nollendorfplatz 43 00:06:17,489 --> 00:06:20,952 It was right here. I forgot the doctor and everything else... 44 00:06:21,274 --> 00:06:24,039 ...and went to the cinema 45 00:06:29,300 --> 00:06:32,194 'Mountain of Destiny' directed by Arnold Fanck 46 00:06:32,448 --> 00:06:34,617 was the first feature film in the history of cinema 47 00:06:34,893 --> 00:06:36,978 to set its drama high in the mountains. 48 00:06:37,447 --> 00:06:40,967 When she saw it, the film was to change Riefenstahl's life. 49 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,939 Frank had invented an evocative new genre 50 00:07:04,089 --> 00:07:05,327 the mountain film. 51 00:07:12,894 --> 00:07:15,505 It was a totally new kind of film 52 00:07:15,634 --> 00:07:18,125 The first mountaineering film 53 00:07:18,425 --> 00:07:22,356 The first with sequences so filled with movement 54 00:07:22,581 --> 00:07:26,302 The clouds were alive with movement. We'd never seen that before 55 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,511 Fanck was breaking new ground 56 00:07:29,886 --> 00:07:33,817 His use of slow motion, lighting, the composition of his shots... 57 00:07:34,092 --> 00:07:38,871 It was all artistic and way ahead of its time 58 00:07:39,348 --> 00:07:45,232 I didn't know much about film but realised I was looking... 59 00:07:45,541 --> 00:07:50,687 ...at a very special art-form on the screen for the first time 60 00:07:54,625 --> 00:07:57,476 Riefenstahl immediately set off in search of Fanck, 61 00:07:57,728 --> 00:08:00,096 and quite by chance met his leading actor 62 00:08:00,205 --> 00:08:02,726 Luis Trenker in a hotel in the Dolomites 63 00:08:05,009 --> 00:08:10,091 She came up and said she wanted to star opposite me in my next film 64 00:08:10,350 --> 00:08:15,184 She's crazy, I thought. Then she gave me a lovely photo of herself 65 00:08:15,500 --> 00:08:18,148 I sent it to Fanck and wrote: 66 00:08:18,436 --> 00:08:22,092 Dear Fanck, this woman is beautiful 67 00:08:22,390 --> 00:08:28,283 She's determined to be in your next film, starring opposite me 68 00:08:28,434 --> 00:08:31,593 It's all a fantasy... 69 00:08:31,883 --> 00:08:36,872 ...but I enclose her photo. Do what you like with it 70 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,388 Fanck was smitten, and was so fascinated by her 71 00:08:40,508 --> 00:08:43,434 that he asked her to play the starring role in his next film 72 00:08:43,608 --> 00:08:47,758 I'd hurt my knee seriously while dancing 73 00:08:47,917 --> 00:08:53,979 So I sent Fanck my photos and the rave reviews 74 00:08:54,454 --> 00:08:58,343 Presumably because of the pictures and reviews... 75 00:08:58,621 --> 00:09:00,444 ..he visited me in hospital 76 00:09:00,841 --> 00:09:06,869 To my amazement he handed me a script on which was written: 77 00:09:07,016 --> 00:09:12,490 "'The Sacred Mountain' written in 3 days and nights for Leni Riefenstahl" 78 00:09:12,778 --> 00:09:14,494 Then Fanck wrote to me: 79 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:19,024 You're the one who's crazy. She'll be Germany's greatest star 80 00:09:19,305 --> 00:09:25,608 She's going to be your leading lady so see you get on with her 81 00:09:42,094 --> 00:09:47,452 The script said I had to be buried by an avalanche 82 00:09:47,749 --> 00:09:51,310 We were quite mad to do it 83 00:09:51,606 --> 00:09:57,014 I can show you the spot or as near as makes no difference 84 00:09:59,501 --> 00:10:01,774 Up there 85 00:10:02,068 --> 00:10:06,177 We stood on a rock-face like that 86 00:10:06,314 --> 00:10:07,733 Maybe even steeper 87 00:10:17,713 --> 00:10:19,565 I had to cling... 88 00:10:19,689 --> 00:10:24,106 ...onto a rock with my hands... 89 00:10:25,285 --> 00:10:27,986 ...until the avalanche came down 90 00:10:39,384 --> 00:10:42,461 Not just once but two or three times 91 00:10:44,573 --> 00:10:50,471 People today say it was madness, but Fanck demanded our all 92 00:10:56,417 --> 00:11:00,594 This is where I did my first directing 93 00:11:01,084 --> 00:11:05,091 Since the last time we filmed here... 94 00:11:05,357 --> 00:11:07,821 ...sixty-six years have gone by 95 00:11:17,357 --> 00:11:19,385 I will never forget this scene 96 00:11:19,663 --> 00:11:22,837 It wasn't only my first time as director... 97 00:11:23,115 --> 00:11:27,121 ...it was the first time I had to wind a camera 98 00:11:27,414 --> 00:11:32,090 In those days there were no electric cameras 99 00:11:32,408 --> 00:11:37,204 It would all have gone wonderfully but there was an accident 100 00:11:37,499 --> 00:11:41,707 The moment I began turning the handle to shoot... 101 00:11:42,004 --> 00:11:46,002 ...there was a terrible bang as a torch exploded 102 00:11:46,343 --> 00:11:50,793 The boy holding it was behind me. There was a sheet of flame 103 00:11:50,955 --> 00:11:52,800 My face was burnt 104 00:11:53,118 --> 00:11:55,487 ...but I went on filming 105 00:11:58,376 --> 00:12:01,333 I could feel the pain... 106 00:12:01,648 --> 00:12:04,127 ...but I finished the shot 107 00:12:04,423 --> 00:12:08,664 And when I'd finished I looked in the mirror 108 00:12:08,978 --> 00:12:10,814 My face was black 109 00:12:11,098 --> 00:12:16,188 Then I heard a little boy had also nearly been burnt... 110 00:12:16,521 --> 00:12:18,125 ...but they rescued him 111 00:12:19,709 --> 00:12:22,091 In the Berlin of the early 1920s, 112 00:12:22,091 --> 00:12:24,613 war profiteers and black market millionaires 113 00:12:24,613 --> 00:12:26,075 flaunted their wealth 114 00:12:32,821 --> 00:12:35,851 But, for most of the people, life was wretched 115 00:12:36,108 --> 00:12:37,080 Many was starving 116 00:12:37,345 --> 00:12:40,608 Soup kitchens and food queues were a common sight on the streets 117 00:12:40,831 --> 00:12:42,879 Social unrest was rife. 118 00:13:01,368 --> 00:13:03,488 Berlin, 60 years later 119 00:13:04,215 --> 00:13:08,811 For this film, Leni Riefenstahl and her companion of many years, Horst Kettner 120 00:13:09,158 --> 00:13:12,748 visit the legendary UFA Filmstudios in Babelsberg 121 00:13:13,270 --> 00:13:16,448 This is where all the classic German silent film were made 122 00:13:28,901 --> 00:13:31,484 The camera follows you... 123 00:13:31,796 --> 00:13:35,464 ...and you tell us how you first came to the studios 124 00:13:35,714 --> 00:13:39,192 - As I'm walking along? - Yes, is that a problem? 125 00:13:39,472 --> 00:13:43,074 - I can't speak when I'm walking - Couldn't you walk a bit? 126 00:13:43,346 --> 00:13:46,745 No, I've never done that in my life 127 00:13:48,545 --> 00:13:53,037 I've never talked while I'm walking I'm not a ghost 128 00:13:53,410 --> 00:13:54,394 Just try it 129 00:13:54,698 --> 00:13:58,206 I'm just saying I can't talk while I'm walking 130 00:13:58,507 --> 00:14:03,857 Even when I dream, I lie down or sit. I can't talk and walk 131 00:14:04,161 --> 00:14:05,565 No one told me... 132 00:14:07,388 --> 00:14:09,318 You won't listen, will you? 133 00:14:09,595 --> 00:14:11,415 I did listen 134 00:14:11,703 --> 00:14:14,629 I'll ask you a question roughly like this 135 00:14:14,965 --> 00:14:19,167 You'll answer while we pull back slowly 136 00:14:19,954 --> 00:14:24,946 But you can't walk backwards. I'd have to speak like this 137 00:14:25,055 --> 00:14:26,529 But I'm here 138 00:14:36,366 --> 00:14:39,311 How did the studio atmosphere strike you? 139 00:14:39,649 --> 00:14:41,875 It was very impressive 140 00:14:42,511 --> 00:14:45,978 Three big films were being made here 141 00:14:46,118 --> 00:14:49,419 Fritz Lang's 'Metropolis', with Brigitte Helm 142 00:14:49,716 --> 00:14:54,278 Murnau's 'Faust' with Camilla Horn and our film 'The Sacred Mountain' 143 00:14:54,591 --> 00:14:57,656 Admittedly, we were in a small studio 144 00:14:58,701 --> 00:15:04,165 But here in this studio, where I later shot scenes for 'Tiefland'... 145 00:15:04,932 --> 00:15:08,599 they'd built some fantastic sets 146 00:15:08,918 --> 00:15:11,504 They were hundreds of extras 147 00:15:13,994 --> 00:15:16,695 Did you meet any famous directors? 148 00:15:16,993 --> 00:15:18,609 I never met Lang... 149 00:15:18,889 --> 00:15:24,164 ...but Fanck wanted me to go for the part of Gretchen in Murnau's 'Faust' 150 00:15:24,449 --> 00:15:28,434 I got hold of a long blonde wig 151 00:15:28,745 --> 00:15:33,447 Fanck was convinced Murnau would hire me 152 00:15:33,598 --> 00:15:35,100 Muranu was interested 153 00:15:35,418 --> 00:15:41,092 I was on the short-list but Camilla was his final choice 154 00:15:43,462 --> 00:15:47,105 Leni Riefenstahl never became star tied to the studio 155 00:15:47,331 --> 00:15:49,910 From her first film, she was drawn over and over again 156 00:15:50,107 --> 00:15:52,407 away from Berlin, into the mountains 157 00:15:59,313 --> 00:16:01,403 This was my favorite area 158 00:16:01,677 --> 00:16:06,235 There's hardly a rock-face or peak I haven't climbed 159 00:16:21,163 --> 00:16:23,676 See how steep it is? 160 00:16:34,782 --> 00:16:40,650 To the left of that ridge, there's a sheer drop of over 2,000 ft 161 00:16:44,193 --> 00:16:45,366 Wonderful! 162 00:16:54,576 --> 00:16:57,015 For these mountain films, the actress from Berlin 163 00:16:57,015 --> 00:16:59,128 had to learn to ski and rock climb 164 00:16:59,276 --> 00:17:01,305 and quickly became a skilled mountaineer 165 00:17:19,241 --> 00:17:23,293 She even climbed without ropes and in bare feet for the cameras 166 00:17:27,865 --> 00:17:33,005 In those days, mountain climbing was strenuous activity practiced exclusively by men 167 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,992 But Riefenstahl never had any difficulty asserting herself 168 00:17:37,538 --> 00:17:39,908 Later on, she would become the only woman 169 00:17:40,016 --> 00:17:44,041 to play a significant role in the rise of National Socialism 170 00:17:45,851 --> 00:17:51,344 You can only get a general shot of the mountains behind me 171 00:17:51,634 --> 00:17:53,908 The camera must be on me... 172 00:17:54,047 --> 00:17:56,030 ...or it won't work 173 00:17:56,409 --> 00:18:02,473 If you want me to talk about climbing, I must face the rocks... 174 00:18:02,954 --> 00:18:04,861 But we're too far away... 175 00:18:05,158 --> 00:18:11,060 No, while I'm talking, you can film the rock-face with the telephoto 176 00:18:11,757 --> 00:18:13,565 You can edit that in 177 00:18:13,847 --> 00:18:18,075 - The mountains will be too small - But we need a general shot 178 00:18:18,373 --> 00:18:20,384 Yes, but not like that 179 00:18:20,523 --> 00:18:23,331 You must find a cinematic solution 180 00:18:23,598 --> 00:18:25,766 The mountains make no impression 181 00:18:25,994 --> 00:18:30,611 You can only do it in the cutting, never with a camera-angle 182 00:18:32,278 --> 00:18:35,436 Don't tell me you want a Hitler-salute 183 00:18:44,020 --> 00:18:49,252 Over there is the famous east face 184 00:18:50,348 --> 00:18:56,451 We had to bivouac a rope's length below the summit 185 00:18:56,936 --> 00:19:02,218 Way down, I could see lights in the huts below 186 00:19:08,349 --> 00:19:10,252 I suppose I didn't realise... 187 00:19:10,408 --> 00:19:14,400 It was fascinating because you forgot everything 188 00:19:14,685 --> 00:19:20,476 All your worries and problems... you just concentrated on not falling 189 00:19:21,740 --> 00:19:24,207 It's a sport... 190 00:19:24,347 --> 00:19:26,973 ...which involves the whole body 191 00:19:28,349 --> 00:19:33,209 It gives you a feeling of freedom, being so close... 192 00:19:33,333 --> 00:19:36,089 ...to the rocks, to nature, and the mountains 193 00:19:36,363 --> 00:19:38,025 When you reach the top... 194 00:19:38,341 --> 00:19:40,960 ...there's such a feeling of bliss... 195 00:19:41,254 --> 00:19:46,185 ...you just want to experience it as often as possible 196 00:20:04,620 --> 00:20:07,163 For the best of Arnold Fanck's mountain films, 197 00:20:07,287 --> 00:20:11,239 Riefenstahl persuaded the director to hire the famous stunt-flier Udet 198 00:20:11,397 --> 00:20:17,041 And to bring in his co-director, one of the great names in German Cinema, W.G. Pabst 199 00:20:26,749 --> 00:20:32,976 Yes, Fanck was so wonderful outdoor director for filming nature 200 00:20:33,303 --> 00:20:37,026 Pabst was a fabulous feature-film director 201 00:20:37,322 --> 00:20:40,828 I brought the two together and it worked wonderfully 202 00:20:40,969 --> 00:20:45,434 That's the reason why 'Pizpalü' was such a success worldwide 203 00:20:46,106 --> 00:20:49,516 These shots are from a home movie, filmed by a member of the crew 204 00:20:49,656 --> 00:20:51,986 on Morteratsch Glacier in St. Moritz 205 00:21:00,521 --> 00:21:03,446 When Pabst told me to look right... 206 00:21:03,699 --> 00:21:07,233 ...I looked left. When he said left, I looked right 207 00:21:07,351 --> 00:21:12,480 So he said, "You're not the director. Stop looking from the camera's angle" 208 00:21:12,771 --> 00:21:16,459 He was the first to make me see.. 209 00:21:16,606 --> 00:21:19,298 ...I'd a talent for directing 210 00:21:21,175 --> 00:21:24,756 An entire rock-face was iced over to create the illusion 211 00:21:24,756 --> 00:21:27,046 that the glacier had moved into the valley 212 00:21:29,988 --> 00:21:33,526 Working with Fanck was always a mental and a physical challenge 213 00:21:37,845 --> 00:21:40,800 We were on an ice-wall in 'Pizpalü' 214 00:21:40,929 --> 00:21:43,535 It was minus 28 degrees 215 00:21:43,655 --> 00:21:47,940 The Engadine hadn't been so cold for 50 years 216 00:21:48,218 --> 00:21:53,440 We were working at night and the wind-machine blew snow in my face 217 00:21:54,887 --> 00:21:59,448 - He might lose consciousness - Tie hum tight or he'll fall 218 00:22:26,150 --> 00:22:29,409 Pabst was quite different from Fanck 219 00:22:29,658 --> 00:22:35,220 Fanck gave very few directions. We had to more or less improvise 220 00:22:35,486 --> 00:22:38,466 But Pabst knew exactly what he wanted 221 00:22:38,735 --> 00:22:42,822 Without acting out the part for us, he put the actor... 222 00:22:42,985 --> 00:22:47,125 ...in the mental state he wanted, which is very important 223 00:22:47,283 --> 00:22:52,271 You forgot the camera and became the character you were portraying 224 00:23:08,245 --> 00:23:10,226 Maria, the rope! 225 00:23:40,773 --> 00:23:43,791 While filming with Arnold Fanck, Riefenstahl and Luis Trenker 226 00:23:44,269 --> 00:23:46,093 were themselves learning how to direct 227 00:23:46,915 --> 00:23:49,943 Fanck was a perfectionist, a stickler for details 228 00:23:50,183 --> 00:23:52,524 Even when his actors were being tested to the limit 229 00:23:56,205 --> 00:23:59,587 Oh, I'd rather not think about that 230 00:23:59,731 --> 00:24:02,294 It wasn't just bad, it was awful 231 00:24:02,590 --> 00:24:08,715 Fanck's plan was to have me hauled up and let an avalanche drop on me 232 00:24:09,134 --> 00:24:13,190 I said, "Count me out. It's out of the question" 233 00:24:13,336 --> 00:24:17,531 So he said, "Leni darling, it won't be a real avalanche" 234 00:24:17,810 --> 00:24:20,937 "We'll just drop a bit of snow on you" 235 00:24:21,229 --> 00:24:25,022 He was very persuasive and promised extra money 236 00:24:25,230 --> 00:24:28,657 I agreed and was tied up with rope 237 00:24:31,412 --> 00:24:35,563 The camera crew were up above, and off we went 238 00:24:49,452 --> 00:24:51,345 I'd only gone 10 feet... 239 00:24:51,602 --> 00:24:55,257 ...when a real avalanche enveloped me 240 00:24:55,510 --> 00:24:58,211 I screamed, my ears and eyes hurt 241 00:24:58,964 --> 00:25:02,090 Fanck kept the camera rolling on and on 242 00:25:11,033 --> 00:25:12,911 Then they pulled me in 243 00:25:13,143 --> 00:25:19,222 For weeks I was black and blue all over. I really hated Fanck 244 00:25:20,004 --> 00:25:24,623 In 1920s Berlin, the National Socialists were parading through the streets 245 00:25:25,021 --> 00:25:26,860 And the young fanatic named Goebbels 246 00:25:26,860 --> 00:25:30,137 was gaining notoriety with his inflammatory speeches 247 00:25:32,392 --> 00:25:35,369 As the struggle for power raged between the rival parties 248 00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:39,205 the Babelsberg studios decided to try and take on Hollywood 249 00:25:48,014 --> 00:25:50,950 In the studio, now named Marlene Dietrich Hall 250 00:25:51,198 --> 00:25:55,444 Riefenstahl furthered her education when she met Josef von Sternberg 251 00:26:04,041 --> 00:26:08,088 Von Sternberg brought me to the studio every day... 252 00:26:08,370 --> 00:26:11,662 ...until it got too much for Marlene 253 00:26:11,957 --> 00:26:18,012 I liked her a lot, I idolised her. She was exceptional but very jealous 254 00:26:18,308 --> 00:26:23,894 One day we had quite a row in the studio, She started it 255 00:26:24,197 --> 00:26:28,325 There was this famous scene where she sits on a barrel... 256 00:26:28,473 --> 00:26:31,586 ...and sings 'Falling in Love Again' 257 00:26:31,838 --> 00:26:35,592 She starting behaving very crudely... 258 00:26:35,969 --> 00:26:39,595 ...to try and make me leave in disgust 259 00:26:40,087 --> 00:26:43,527 Sternberg noticed and stepped in... 260 00:26:43,814 --> 00:26:48,373 ...but she said she'd leave the film if I came to the studio again 261 00:26:53,167 --> 00:26:59,333 He said to me, "Leni, you're the complete opposite of Marlene 262 00:26:59,645 --> 00:27:04,217 "You're both very special but quite different 263 00:27:08,170 --> 00:27:10,471 "I've shaped Marlene... 264 00:27:10,616 --> 00:27:13,564 "...into this wonderful creation... 265 00:27:13,862 --> 00:27:16,694 "...and I'll do the same for you 266 00:27:17,025 --> 00:27:19,410 "You haven't been discovered yet" 267 00:27:21,827 --> 00:27:27,624 I really regret the fact that, when he offered me work in Hollywood... 268 00:27:27,916 --> 00:27:29,384 ...I was unable to go 269 00:27:29,744 --> 00:27:34,022 I was deeply involved with a man at the time... 270 00:27:34,155 --> 00:27:36,289 ...and didn't want to leave him 271 00:27:36,434 --> 00:27:42,424 I have that to thank... 272 00:27:42,686 --> 00:27:46,704 ...or to regret for my not going to Hollywood 273 00:27:47,499 --> 00:27:50,891 When Von Sternberg later saw Riefenstahl's own first film, 274 00:27:51,165 --> 00:27:53,971 he was able to make a more precise judgment about her 275 00:27:55,058 --> 00:27:58,898 Yes, he'd seen me in 'The Blue Light'... 276 00:27:59,156 --> 00:28:02,371 ...where I played the role of Junta... 277 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:07,784 ...an innocent, naive child of nature... 278 00:28:08,067 --> 00:28:11,319 ...who is intentionally asexual... 279 00:28:12,315 --> 00:28:17,092 ...whereas Marlene was the sexy type, erotic, a sort of sphinx... 280 00:28:17,376 --> 00:28:19,692 ...a star, an elegant super-star 281 00:28:20,019 --> 00:28:24,189 He thought I was the absolute opposite of Marlene 282 00:28:24,538 --> 00:28:26,902 I think that was probably true 283 00:28:28,267 --> 00:28:32,903 While Riefenstahl made films for Hitler, Dietrich chose to emigrate 284 00:28:33,544 --> 00:28:37,638 In his memoirs, Von Sternberg makes no reference to Riefenstahl 285 00:28:39,617 --> 00:28:43,580 In the streets of Berlin, Nazis were still struggling to win elections 286 00:28:44,209 --> 00:28:49,569 Hitler, waiting in the wings was certainly ready, but, was Germany? 287 00:28:53,500 --> 00:28:57,053 We Germans wanted a Führer... 288 00:28:57,202 --> 00:29:00,591 ...and we got one, right? 289 00:29:00,857 --> 00:29:05,532 We Germans are all like that, we want a Führer 290 00:29:05,882 --> 00:29:09,826 And what happens? This ghastly Hitler comes along... 291 00:29:09,966 --> 00:29:14,261 ...and everyone says, "Wonderful, here's a real Führer 292 00:29:14,617 --> 00:29:16,727 "Someone to tell us what to do" 293 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,234 There's something in what Marlene says 294 00:29:20,515 --> 00:29:24,679 For us, at school and at home... 295 00:29:24,988 --> 00:29:29,867 ...discipline came first. She's right there 296 00:29:31,755 --> 00:29:35,573 Germans would be very enamored of someone... 297 00:29:35,707 --> 00:29:39,660 ...they thought they could model themselves on 298 00:29:39,943 --> 00:29:43,698 They're happy to let themselves be led, that's for sure 299 00:29:49,090 --> 00:29:53,168 While the Germans rallied around their new Führer in ever increasing numbers, 300 00:29:53,412 --> 00:29:55,915 Riefenstahl set off again for the mountains 301 00:29:56,588 --> 00:29:59,000 In the south Tirol, she made her first film 302 00:29:59,540 --> 00:30:03,943 a romantic fairy-tale, which she produced, directed and starred 303 00:30:20,428 --> 00:30:23,839 This rocky peak in the Brenta Massif of the south Tirol 304 00:30:23,989 --> 00:30:28,691 is transformed by Leni Riefenstahl's camera into a mysterious presence 305 00:30:29,100 --> 00:30:31,312 mythical and Wagnerian 306 00:30:38,516 --> 00:30:43,342 The girl holding the crystal is an outcast, a witch 307 00:30:44,717 --> 00:30:48,786 The crystal or crystals... 308 00:30:49,078 --> 00:30:54,737 ...are in fact the symbolic theme of 'The Blue Light' 309 00:30:59,896 --> 00:31:01,302 Junta... 310 00:31:01,588 --> 00:31:06,609 ...who is a wild, innocent mountain girl... 311 00:31:06,888 --> 00:31:10,330 ...was fascinated by the light in this grotto 312 00:31:10,479 --> 00:31:14,531 In the mountains was a crystal grotto which only Junta knew about 313 00:31:14,820 --> 00:31:17,168 It was only visible... 314 00:31:17,316 --> 00:31:22,237 ...by the blue light of a full moon shining through a crack 315 00:31:22,688 --> 00:31:25,296 Then it was a shimmer of blue 316 00:31:32,073 --> 00:31:33,397 Symbolic... 317 00:31:33,532 --> 00:31:37,865 ...of the ideal one always dreams of but never attains 318 00:31:38,090 --> 00:31:40,088 That's the film's theme 319 00:31:45,065 --> 00:31:47,878 Why did you choose a fairy-tale for your first film? 320 00:31:48,158 --> 00:31:51,158 I suppose because Dr. Fanck's films... 321 00:31:51,298 --> 00:31:57,019 ...although realistic, were set in fairy-tale landscapes 322 00:31:57,310 --> 00:31:59,827 I found that a conflict of styles 323 00:32:00,111 --> 00:32:04,643 Fairy-tale landscapes and realistic action didn't work together for me 324 00:32:04,786 --> 00:32:10,181 But since I also loved beautiful, fairy-tale, picturesque landscape... 325 00:32:10,500 --> 00:32:14,964 ...I thought it would be better to fit a fairy-story into it 326 00:32:17,194 --> 00:32:21,284 No one in the film understands how power of a mysterious mountain 327 00:32:21,578 --> 00:32:23,852 had access to the precious stones 328 00:32:25,338 --> 00:32:26,397 You witch 329 00:32:35,210 --> 00:32:38,443 Go away, you ugly old witch 330 00:33:01,765 --> 00:33:02,998 How beautiful 331 00:33:17,276 --> 00:33:21,506 Before I worked with Fanck, when I was a dancer... 332 00:33:21,655 --> 00:33:25,197 ...I'd written scripts but no screenplays 333 00:33:25,476 --> 00:33:29,388 Then I met Carl Mayer, the famous playwright... 334 00:33:29,599 --> 00:33:33,067 ...who'd written the material for Murnau's film... 335 00:33:33,211 --> 00:33:37,895 ...and Bela Balazs, who was the best screen-writer then 336 00:33:38,187 --> 00:33:42,221 They liked my material so much they gave me some good tips 337 00:33:42,518 --> 00:33:45,186 Balazs even helped me for free 338 00:33:45,458 --> 00:33:49,217 Balazs wrote the dialogue and I did the visual scenes 339 00:33:49,540 --> 00:33:52,021 It was the ideal collaboration 340 00:33:52,346 --> 00:33:53,526 Here, for instance... 341 00:33:53,827 --> 00:33:58,323 ...I drew the waterfall and the position of the sun 342 00:33:59,369 --> 00:34:03,047 It says here, 7:10 a.m. 343 00:34:03,331 --> 00:34:06,660 Shooting must be finished by 8 344 00:34:07,209 --> 00:34:12,695 I even put the lens to be used: a 7.5 focal length 345 00:34:12,994 --> 00:34:14,633 It's all noted 346 00:34:14,947 --> 00:34:18,626 You put down every scene in writing 347 00:34:18,903 --> 00:34:24,043 I fine-tuned every scene through the camera, worked out the light... 348 00:34:24,311 --> 00:34:28,148 ...and tested everything in advance. It ran like clockwork 349 00:34:28,429 --> 00:34:31,447 We even did a rush of every scene 350 00:34:31,724 --> 00:34:36,315 We made a negative to see whether we could improve on it 351 00:34:36,597 --> 00:34:40,199 We placed a lot of importance on picture quality 352 00:34:48,409 --> 00:34:52,024 Riefenstahl was a perfectionist, and would only settle for the best 353 00:34:52,609 --> 00:34:56,500 For her first film, she ordered a special lens to be sent over from Hollywood 354 00:34:56,649 --> 00:35:00,416 and asked the labs to develop a new film stock for the night scenes 355 00:35:17,507 --> 00:35:22,620 I was able to do that because Agfa made some special film-stock for me 356 00:35:22,895 --> 00:35:24,944 It was later called R-Stock 357 00:35:25,278 --> 00:35:31,211 If you use it with a red filter, the blue comes out dark, almost black 358 00:35:31,489 --> 00:35:36,526 I could do climbing shots as if they were at night, without a spotlight 359 00:35:36,776 --> 00:35:38,782 It was an experiment 360 00:36:16,612 --> 00:36:20,634 As Rosselini and De Sica told me, I was the first... 361 00:36:20,778 --> 00:36:24,661 ...to film in real locations, like a church 362 00:36:25,039 --> 00:36:27,520 We built nothing in the studio 363 00:36:27,804 --> 00:36:31,523 I was given permission to film in a church... 364 00:36:31,809 --> 00:36:37,930 ...while the priests were conducting a service 365 00:36:49,140 --> 00:36:52,501 The inn scenes were filmed in Bolzano 366 00:36:52,643 --> 00:36:55,434 In fact all the interior scenes... 367 00:36:55,697 --> 00:37:01,258 ...were shot in real locations for the first time in a feature film 368 00:37:31,529 --> 00:37:36,876 When the film was ready, I showed it to Agfa, who were the distributors 369 00:37:37,007 --> 00:37:42,406 They didn't like it at all and I was also disappointed with it 370 00:37:42,714 --> 00:37:46,076 The film did not look as I'd envisaged it 371 00:37:46,392 --> 00:37:49,306 So I went and showed it to Fanck 372 00:37:49,598 --> 00:37:54,776 And he said, "Come back tomorrow and we'll improve it 373 00:37:55,023 --> 00:37:58,146 "It has weaknesses and boring bits" 374 00:37:58,286 --> 00:38:01,084 When I went back the next day... 375 00:38:01,379 --> 00:38:07,168 ...he'd cut up my copy into hundreds of pieces and completely re-edited it 376 00:38:07,519 --> 00:38:08,875 I was horrified 377 00:38:09,142 --> 00:38:13,260 His version didn't work either. All my effort was wasted 378 00:38:14,931 --> 00:38:18,195 Riefenstahl's steely determination enabled her to conquer 379 00:38:18,195 --> 00:38:23,034 not a new rock-face, but also to overcome all obstacles in her career 380 00:38:23,870 --> 00:38:26,628 The fight in the editing room was to prove the first of many 381 00:38:27,293 --> 00:38:29,285 And she always got her way 382 00:38:33,404 --> 00:38:39,359 For several days, I just wept and then I began to edit it again 383 00:38:39,486 --> 00:38:44,329 And this exercise was very therapeutic 384 00:38:44,597 --> 00:38:47,804 Although I didn't like Fanck's cut... 385 00:38:48,091 --> 00:38:53,462 ...I noticed lots of things he'd done... 386 00:38:53,773 --> 00:38:59,492 ...which I'd never have thought of, like the inter-cutting of scenes 387 00:39:26,550 --> 00:39:31,297 Fanck had cut too much but I saw it was wrong not to cut at all 388 00:39:31,439 --> 00:39:34,802 So I took it over and edited it in a rhythm... 389 00:39:34,940 --> 00:39:39,239 ...I felt right for the subject. I hadn't done that before 390 00:39:39,513 --> 00:39:42,855 If a director shoots a scene that goes on too long... 391 00:39:42,998 --> 00:39:46,554 ...he doesn't always realise it needs cutting 392 00:39:46,803 --> 00:39:50,045 A particularly important scene was in the moonlight... 393 00:39:50,331 --> 00:39:52,839 ...when the peasants shut their doors 394 00:39:53,097 --> 00:39:58,839 At first I'd edited it - man shuts the door, next a man shuts door and so on 395 00:39:59,068 --> 00:40:02,519 That was the logical way but Fanck did it differently 396 00:40:02,695 --> 00:40:08,529 He had one man starting to shut his door, the next continuing the action 397 00:40:08,812 --> 00:40:11,927 This variety gave more interest and tension 398 00:40:12,209 --> 00:40:16,931 It was a very special method which I intuitively understood... 399 00:40:17,222 --> 00:40:20,702 ...and which I applied to my subject 400 00:40:20,969 --> 00:40:26,332 I still did things more slowly than he had, but not as slowly as before 401 00:40:26,472 --> 00:40:28,253 I was learning 402 00:40:35,086 --> 00:40:37,366 Don't close the shutters... 403 00:40:37,656 --> 00:40:39,997 ...in this fine weather 404 00:40:40,669 --> 00:40:42,461 It's full moon 405 00:40:43,607 --> 00:40:46,060 Ah, the blue light 406 00:40:54,362 --> 00:40:59,858 I played this girl Junta, who is a kind of witch 407 00:40:59,998 --> 00:41:06,131 It's as if it were a premonition of my own life 408 00:41:07,062 --> 00:41:09,319 Junta was loved and hated 409 00:41:09,466 --> 00:41:14,298 It's been the same for me - I've been loved and hated 410 00:41:14,583 --> 00:41:18,374 Just as Junta lost her ideal... 411 00:41:18,529 --> 00:41:22,013 ...through the shattering of the crystal... 412 00:41:22,316 --> 00:41:28,399 ...in the same way I lost my ideals at the end of that terrible war 413 00:41:29,973 --> 00:41:36,157 To that extent the film was indeed a premonition of my own destiny 414 00:41:47,700 --> 00:41:51,125 Were you already in contact with the National Socialists? 415 00:41:51,254 --> 00:41:57,431 I didn't know of their existence. I hadn't even heard of Hitler 416 00:41:58,124 --> 00:42:02,270 When I was filming 'The Blue Light' I had no idea 417 00:42:03,639 --> 00:42:08,107 Didn't Hans Jaeger say something to you about Hitler? 418 00:42:08,426 --> 00:42:10,430 He said to me: 419 00:42:10,717 --> 00:42:16,136 "Are you going to this National Socialist meeting today?" 420 00:42:16,392 --> 00:42:19,854 I didn't understand so I said "Why? What about it?" 421 00:42:20,123 --> 00:42:25,333 "Hitler's speaking today in Berlin, in the Sports Palace", he said 422 00:42:25,595 --> 00:42:27,215 "So what?" I said 423 00:42:27,341 --> 00:42:30,997 Then he said, "I've a feeling... 424 00:42:31,572 --> 00:42:37,164 "...that if you heard him, it could change your life" 425 00:42:37,443 --> 00:42:41,240 I laughed and asked "How could it do that?" 426 00:42:41,363 --> 00:42:47,630 So Jaeger, who was an anti-Nazi, though I didn't know that, said: 427 00:42:48,349 --> 00:42:50,301 "Take my advice and go" 428 00:42:50,596 --> 00:42:55,042 And as I was curious, I went 429 00:42:56,038 --> 00:42:59,072 And indeed it did change my fate 430 00:43:05,615 --> 00:43:07,661 I know, my comrades... 431 00:43:08,044 --> 00:43:13,081 ...that it was hard for you when you thought change must come... 432 00:43:13,367 --> 00:43:14,697 ...and it never came 433 00:43:15,005 --> 00:43:21,049 When endless appeals were made to you that the fight must go on 434 00:43:21,344 --> 00:43:24,656 Calls not to act but to obey 435 00:43:24,812 --> 00:43:30,906 To resist but not to bend under this monstrous pressure 436 00:43:31,063 --> 00:43:35,739 It was the first time I'd ever seen a political meeting 437 00:43:36,014 --> 00:43:42,060 I found it immensely impressive and I was carried away by the atmosphere 438 00:43:42,363 --> 00:43:46,220 Hitler really fascinated me 439 00:43:46,773 --> 00:43:50,733 So I immediately wrote him a letter 440 00:43:51,010 --> 00:43:53,399 I wanted to meet him. I thought: 441 00:43:53,701 --> 00:43:56,972 May be he is the man who can save Germany 442 00:43:57,519 --> 00:44:03,699 When I asked his adjutant why I'd received a reply, he said: 443 00:44:03,828 --> 00:44:09,470 "The Führer was thrilled with your dance by the sea... 444 00:44:09,732 --> 00:44:12,140 "...in 'The Sacred Mountain'" 445 00:44:35,146 --> 00:44:37,791 What was your impression of him? 446 00:44:38,081 --> 00:44:43,112 Interestingly, quite the opposite of my impression at the Stadium 447 00:44:43,423 --> 00:44:46,971 There he'd seemed a politician... 448 00:44:47,241 --> 00:44:50,655 ...trying to enthuse people 449 00:44:50,913 --> 00:44:54,659 Now he seemed a modest, private individual 450 00:44:54,954 --> 00:44:58,285 You couldn't imagine him stirring the masses 451 00:44:58,591 --> 00:45:03,689 He seemed very natural, straightforward, modest and friendly 452 00:45:03,980 --> 00:45:10,991 When I'd seen his face on posters, I'd thought him decidedly ugly 453 00:45:11,137 --> 00:45:15,212 But when I met him personally, that all disappeared 454 00:45:15,466 --> 00:45:19,747 You just didn't notice his features and the mustache 455 00:45:20,049 --> 00:45:22,865 He radiated something very powerful 456 00:45:23,161 --> 00:45:26,687 You forgot all the rest 457 00:45:26,971 --> 00:45:30,595 But as a man he did not interest me at all 458 00:45:30,830 --> 00:45:35,251 You sensed he had a kind of demonic power of suggestion? 459 00:45:35,556 --> 00:45:38,293 Yes, at the public meeting... 460 00:45:38,704 --> 00:45:41,958 ...and even more strongly when I met him 461 00:45:42,085 --> 00:45:46,050 He radiated something which had a kind of hypnotic effect 462 00:45:46,308 --> 00:45:49,338 That frightened me a little 463 00:45:49,595 --> 00:45:54,257 I didn't want to lose my own will and my freedom 464 00:45:54,511 --> 00:45:56,878 I already felt... 465 00:45:57,147 --> 00:46:01,927 ...I had to avoid this atmosphere at all costs 466 00:46:02,231 --> 00:46:05,233 It would paralyse one's free will 467 00:46:05,383 --> 00:46:10,686 What did you make of his political programme? 468 00:46:10,973 --> 00:46:13,753 I knew nothing about it... 469 00:46:13,964 --> 00:46:18,857 ...and had no time to find out because I was off to Greenland 470 00:46:23,403 --> 00:46:27,288 She was soon being typecast. In this big Hollywood production, 471 00:46:27,288 --> 00:46:31,446 Leni Riefenstahl once again plays the part of the beautiful daredevil 472 00:46:31,712 --> 00:46:34,016 The plucky rescue pilot in the Arctic 473 00:46:50,761 --> 00:46:54,660 She embodied an ideal which Hitler was cleverly to exploit 474 00:46:55,545 --> 00:46:58,093 Incidentally, he said then: 475 00:46:58,383 --> 00:47:03,348 "When we come to power, you must make my films" 476 00:47:03,497 --> 00:47:07,988 I certainly didn't take him seriously. I said: 477 00:47:08,270 --> 00:47:13,338 "I can only do what I enjoy. I'm an actress, I want nice parts to play" 478 00:47:14,844 --> 00:47:18,958 It is precisely these roles which created the image of Riefenstahl 479 00:47:19,045 --> 00:47:22,751 that Hitler so admired, a heroic superwoman, 480 00:47:23,044 --> 00:47:26,781 the queen of the mountains, enthroned high among the peaks, 481 00:47:27,829 --> 00:47:33,094 beyond the reach of the masses, an idol, a myth larger than life 482 00:47:34,003 --> 00:47:38,150 In other words, exactly what Hitler himself so much wanted to be 483 00:47:38,449 --> 00:47:42,088 but so conspicuously lacked the artistic tinge to achieve 484 00:47:44,255 --> 00:47:49,370 Then Hitler said, "Well, when you're older and more mature... 485 00:47:49,661 --> 00:47:52,546 "...maybe you'll understand my ideas" 486 00:47:52,833 --> 00:47:54,537 I was ignorant then 487 00:47:56,983 --> 00:48:01,174 In January 1933, Hitler became Reich's Chancellor 488 00:48:01,205 --> 00:48:02,936 with immediate consequences 489 00:48:07,940 --> 00:48:10,191 German men and women... 490 00:48:11,355 --> 00:48:16,401 ...the age of pettifogging Jewish intellectualism... 491 00:48:16,810 --> 00:48:18,835 ...is at an end 492 00:48:19,569 --> 00:48:23,038 The breakthrough of the German revolution... 493 00:48:23,183 --> 00:48:26,662 ...had cleared the path ahead for Germany 494 00:48:26,989 --> 00:48:30,933 I consign all that is un-German to the flames 495 00:48:31,795 --> 00:48:34,863 I consign to the fire the writings... 496 00:48:35,125 --> 00:48:36,616 ...of Heinrich Mann... 497 00:48:36,776 --> 00:48:38,224 ...Ernst Glaeser... 498 00:48:38,534 --> 00:48:40,115 {\a8}...and Erich Kästner 499 00:48:38,721 --> 00:48:43,091 As ever, at the crucial time, Leni Riefenstahl was absent 500 00:48:40,377 --> 00:48:44,905 {\a8}Down with time-servers and political traitors 501 00:48:43,359 --> 00:48:45,029 filming in the Swiss Alps 502 00:48:45,004 --> 00:48:49,955 I heard nothing about the book-burning. We hadn't television then 503 00:48:50,148 --> 00:48:53,480 I learnt about it on my return... 504 00:48:53,755 --> 00:48:57,743 ...and particularly about friends of mine... 505 00:48:58,031 --> 00:48:59,385 Who had emigrated? 506 00:48:59,526 --> 00:49:02,312 I found their letters in my post 507 00:49:02,601 --> 00:49:06,698 They wrote to me and that really upset me 508 00:49:13,148 --> 00:49:16,693 And when I was summoned... 509 00:49:16,979 --> 00:49:22,198 ...to see Hitler, I immediately spoke to him about it 510 00:49:22,471 --> 00:49:27,125 His face darkened suddenly and he said: 511 00:49:27,413 --> 00:49:32,154 "I must ask you, Fräulein, not to speak to me on this matter" 512 00:49:32,441 --> 00:49:34,651 You did try to raise the subject? 513 00:49:34,931 --> 00:49:39,165 Immediately. It was the first thing I tried... 514 00:49:39,453 --> 00:49:42,183 ...and realised it wasn't possible 515 00:49:42,438 --> 00:49:47,905 He immediately called his adjutant and had me ushered out 516 00:49:48,191 --> 00:49:51,009 He wouldn't talk to me about it 517 00:49:52,294 --> 00:49:55,561 Clearly, something in Germany had fundamentally changed 518 00:49:56,348 --> 00:49:59,818 In the brutal boycott of Jewish shops gave her no cause to doubt 519 00:50:00,486 --> 00:50:03,960 How could she have overlooked what she saw around her in Germany? 520 00:50:04,916 --> 00:50:08,736 My friends who'd emigrated... 521 00:50:08,998 --> 00:50:12,492 ...and Manfred Georg in particular... 522 00:50:12,774 --> 00:50:15,793 ...urged me to stay and stick it out 523 00:50:16,054 --> 00:50:20,475 By staying, we could prevent the spread of anti-semitism 524 00:50:20,706 --> 00:50:23,655 We were to be a bulwark against it 525 00:50:26,983 --> 00:50:30,406 And we all thought it was just electioneering... 526 00:50:30,636 --> 00:50:33,896 ...a temporary thing that would die down 527 00:50:34,210 --> 00:50:37,012 We didn't foresee the danger 528 00:50:38,424 --> 00:50:42,014 Didn't 'Mein Kampf' open your eyes... 529 00:50:42,292 --> 00:50:44,167 ...to Hitler's aims? 530 00:50:44,292 --> 00:50:46,069 It was very interesting 531 00:50:46,331 --> 00:50:50,569 I hadn't read it all - just a few chapters 532 00:50:50,695 --> 00:50:54,627 Some things in it appealed to me very much 533 00:50:54,742 --> 00:50:57,967 Everything that dealt with social problems 534 00:50:58,253 --> 00:51:03,710 I think that was why Hitler had so many supporters then 535 00:51:03,944 --> 00:51:06,777 Six million unemployed, the poverty... 536 00:51:07,175 --> 00:51:12,084 Obviously I didn't like his racial theories 537 00:51:12,329 --> 00:51:18,119 I made notes in the book which later happened to fall into Hitler's hands 538 00:51:18,373 --> 00:51:23,877 I had written 'good' or 'bad', 'not good' etc. So I had made my choices 539 00:51:24,132 --> 00:51:28,012 - How did he react to this critique? - He laughed 540 00:51:28,687 --> 00:51:31,889 {\a8}Ladies and gentlemen 541 00:51:29,632 --> 00:51:34,048 Goebbels' diaries for the year 1933 give the distinct impression that 542 00:51:32,889 --> 00:51:36,924 {\a8}With one bold and magnificent stroke... 543 00:51:34,048 --> 00:51:38,540 Riefenstahl was on good terms socially with both Hitler and Goebbels 544 00:51:37,179 --> 00:51:40,988 {\a8}...we've put our enemies to flight 545 00:51:41,550 --> 00:51:45,052 What was your relationship with the Propaganda Minister, Goebbels? 546 00:51:45,309 --> 00:51:48,124 The worst you can ever imagine 547 00:51:48,496 --> 00:51:51,449 We met before they came to power 548 00:51:51,612 --> 00:51:57,643 It was in the lift at the Hotel Kaiserhof. We were both going up 549 00:51:58,085 --> 00:52:01,811 He pursued me and was determined to have me 550 00:52:01,945 --> 00:52:05,391 He wanted me as his mistress and so on 551 00:52:05,530 --> 00:52:08,625 But he was not my type at all 552 00:52:08,771 --> 00:52:12,234 I felt nothing for him 553 00:52:12,377 --> 00:52:18,501 He never forgave me for rejecting him. Later it became worse 554 00:52:18,779 --> 00:52:21,684 I can say he was almost an enemy 555 00:52:21,975 --> 00:52:26,839 Reading Goebbels' diaries for 1933, we get the impression... 556 00:52:26,967 --> 00:52:30,173 ...you were on visiting terms with him and Hitler 557 00:52:30,583 --> 00:52:35,143 You must show me these entries. I've never read them 558 00:52:35,288 --> 00:52:39,935 I've never read anything saying I was on visiting terms. It's sheer fantasy 559 00:52:41,146 --> 00:52:45,855 Saw Leni Riefenstahl this afternoon, suggested a film about Hitler to her 560 00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:47,445 She was enthusiastic 561 00:52:48,087 --> 00:52:51,264 In the evening to Madam Butterfly with Magda and Leni 562 00:52:52,617 --> 00:52:57,506 At the start of 1933 I'd never visited him. He never said I had 563 00:52:57,807 --> 00:52:59,609 Drove back with Hitler in the evening 564 00:52:59,867 --> 00:53:04,722 Later at home, Philipp von Hessen and Leni Riefenstahl called 'very nice' 565 00:53:05,251 --> 00:53:06,611 I never went there 566 00:53:06,900 --> 00:53:10,586 Nor to Schwanenwerder, where everyone went 567 00:53:10,862 --> 00:53:13,829 I wasn't even invited. Not once 568 00:53:14,475 --> 00:53:18,358 Saw a film with Hitler starring Hans Albers, terrible rubbish 569 00:53:18,739 --> 00:53:22,837 Gerda, Maria and Leni Riefenstahl were there. Three beautiful women 570 00:53:23,072 --> 00:53:27,612 This makes me so angry. What you say is incredible 571 00:53:27,913 --> 00:53:29,052 Let me show you 572 00:53:29,293 --> 00:53:33,712 That I was on social terms... there's nothing about that in the diaries... 573 00:53:33,992 --> 00:53:36,201 It's simply not true. Herr Müller 574 00:53:36,459 --> 00:53:42,501 OK, show me where it says I was in and out of their houses, socially 575 00:53:43,255 --> 00:53:49,230 What to believe? The diaries of Goebbels or the memories of last surviving witness 576 00:53:51,223 --> 00:53:54,060 Goebbels was a master of the lie 577 00:53:56,997 --> 00:54:02,023 Nuremberg, the imperial castle of the Holy Roman Emperors, the Kaiserberg 578 00:54:02,638 --> 00:54:04,883 A place special significance for Hitler 579 00:54:05,829 --> 00:54:10,118 In his imagination, Hitler saw himself in the tradition of the German Emperors 580 00:54:10,264 --> 00:54:15,691 And like them based his ideal of the Führer on an image of the Roman Caesers 581 00:54:16,675 --> 00:54:20,775 That's why the congresses of the Nazi party were organized in Nuremberg 582 00:54:21,775 --> 00:54:24,356 Today, very little remains of the Nazi buildings, 583 00:54:24,805 --> 00:54:29,052 the popular enthusiasm for the big courage is no longer comprehensible 584 00:54:31,376 --> 00:54:36,347 This is where the great march pasts took place involving as many as a hundred thousand men 585 00:54:52,706 --> 00:54:58,181 Riefenstahl's film of the 1934 Party Congress was the turning point in her life 586 00:54:58,706 --> 00:55:00,203 It changed everything 587 00:55:02,453 --> 00:55:07,266 {\a8}38,000 workers on parade for the ceremony 588 00:55:04,087 --> 00:55:06,599 Later Congresses were filmed by other directors 589 00:55:06,806 --> 00:55:08,544 But they've long been forgotten 590 00:55:24,905 --> 00:55:28,429 The first film was to have been the one and only 591 00:55:28,752 --> 00:55:32,303 Never two or three. Just the one Party Congress film 592 00:55:32,497 --> 00:55:37,866 But the first one in 1933 was never completed 593 00:55:38,154 --> 00:55:44,193 We only filmed a few metres before we were interrupted 594 00:55:44,643 --> 00:55:50,739 The Party didn't want us to make the film despite Hitler's commission 595 00:55:51,083 --> 00:55:52,423 It was boycotted 596 00:55:55,884 --> 00:56:00,573 Until recently, Riefenstahl's first film of the Nazi Congresses in Nuremberg, 597 00:56:00,679 --> 00:56:03,490 Victory of Faith, was thought to have been lost 598 00:56:03,829 --> 00:56:06,513 Many doubted that it was ever actually been made 599 00:56:10,813 --> 00:56:15,998 Grotesque as it may sound, the Party who were supposed to make the film... 600 00:56:16,285 --> 00:56:18,837 ...didn't want me to make it 601 00:56:19,018 --> 00:56:23,405 But you were involved in the other film? You brought that up yourself 602 00:56:23,676 --> 00:56:27,586 I know, but it's very hard to keep them apart 603 00:56:27,845 --> 00:56:29,451 We can cut it out 604 00:56:29,606 --> 00:56:32,021 It's hard to keep it separate 605 00:56:32,393 --> 00:56:36,291 I'm happy to talk about it but not in this bloody light 606 00:56:40,462 --> 00:56:43,445 Reporting to the Führer 607 00:56:43,690 --> 00:56:48,755 {\a8}100,000 Storm-Troopers, Stahlhelm... 608 00:56:45,186 --> 00:56:47,611 In those days, Hitler and Ernst Röhm 609 00:56:47,964 --> 00:56:50,383 were still the partners in the struggle for power 610 00:56:48,883 --> 00:56:53,985 {\a8}...and SS on parade before the Führer 611 00:56:58,646 --> 00:57:00,479 Heil, SA 612 00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:07,369 You talked about the first film and the second. You can't do that 613 00:57:07,529 --> 00:57:12,879 I have to say what the first film is. You can't talk about both at once 614 00:57:13,176 --> 00:57:16,327 - You mentioned the second film - And you the first 615 00:57:16,485 --> 00:57:20,709 - That's the one I want to discuss - Not me. I hardly did anything on it 616 00:57:22,926 --> 00:57:26,976 With its amateury shots of Hitler, and rather elementary camera angles 617 00:57:27,228 --> 00:57:32,639 Victory of Faith is perhaps understandably a film Riefenstahl is very reluctant to talk about 618 00:57:41,565 --> 00:57:45,307 To this day, she is annoyed about the conditions in which she had to film 619 00:57:45,689 --> 00:57:48,894 and which made it impossible for her to achieve her usual perfection 620 00:57:54,353 --> 00:57:58,491 No, the first one wasn't a proper Party Congress film 621 00:57:58,751 --> 00:58:03,801 It was just a few shots I put together, because Hitler wanted it 622 00:58:03,924 --> 00:58:06,967 It has nothing to do with my technique 623 00:58:07,269 --> 00:58:10,284 You can only discuss technique in 'Triumph of the Will' 624 00:58:10,532 --> 00:58:12,569 In the first film there was no technique? 625 00:58:12,830 --> 00:58:17,323 No, we couldn't prepare. When I arrived the Congress was in progress 626 00:58:17,598 --> 00:58:22,556 Let me explain why. My dear Herr Müller, I could do nothing 627 00:58:22,711 --> 00:58:27,703 The party forbade it. Hitler and Goebbels had had a row 628 00:58:59,061 --> 00:59:01,718 If you mention the first film... 629 00:59:02,021 --> 00:59:05,490 ...I must say why I couldn't use my techniques 630 00:59:05,757 --> 00:59:06,692 Go ahead 631 00:59:06,921 --> 00:59:10,266 But, my God, it's too important to discuss here! 632 00:59:11,701 --> 00:59:16,030 Not only was the camera work shoddy, but the organization of the event itself 633 00:59:16,308 --> 00:59:18,226 seemed uncharacteristically chaotic 634 00:59:18,733 --> 00:59:22,449 The Nazis have not yet learned how to march like Nazis 635 00:59:42,144 --> 00:59:46,758 It is quite obvious that both Hitler and Riefenstahl were still trying to get it right 636 00:59:48,158 --> 00:59:50,825 The first wasn't a proper film 637 00:59:51,068 --> 00:59:56,744 Just a few scenes of them running around here, which we put together 638 00:59:56,909 --> 00:59:58,863 Didn't you edit it yourself? 639 00:59:59,121 --> 01:00:04,020 Yes I did. I had to put it together but I had scarcely any material 640 01:00:04,652 --> 01:00:06,929 {\a8}A society... 641 01:00:05,984 --> 01:00:10,487 However some sequences already have the characteristic Riefenstahl touch 642 01:00:07,990 --> 01:00:10,492 {\a8}...without regard... 643 01:00:11,458 --> 01:00:15,248 ...to origin, class... 644 01:00:16,050 --> 01:00:21,286 ...profession, wealth or education 645 01:00:22,215 --> 01:00:23,731 A society... 646 01:00:23,989 --> 01:00:30,005 ...which feels itself bound together, united... 647 01:00:32,124 --> 01:00:36,910 {\a8}...in one great faith and one great purpose 648 01:00:33,416 --> 01:00:37,197 In places like this, the mark of Riefenstahl was unmistakable 649 01:00:37,052 --> 01:00:39,071 {\a8}Not for position... 650 01:00:37,584 --> 01:00:41,462 A dramatic intensity humped up by the composition and the editing 651 01:00:39,173 --> 01:00:41,404 {\a8}...and not for party 652 01:00:41,561 --> 01:00:43,426 Not for profession... 653 01:00:43,565 --> 01:00:46,012 ...and not for class... 654 01:00:46,550 --> 01:00:50,618 ...but united in our one Germany 655 01:00:50,763 --> 01:00:52,514 Your clients were satisfied? 656 01:00:52,668 --> 01:00:58,902 They'd have been happy with any old newsreel provided it showed swastikas 657 01:00:59,102 --> 01:01:04,212 Nevertheless the film had to be edited. It became a short 658 01:01:04,550 --> 01:01:10,285 It was shown in some cinema or other, I forget where 659 01:01:10,531 --> 01:01:13,564 Hitler and the others liked it 660 01:01:13,708 --> 01:01:17,995 It was interesting but they weren't satisfied 661 01:01:18,215 --> 01:01:21,445 Hitler insisted I make another film the following year 662 01:01:21,707 --> 01:01:23,205 Were you dissatisfied too? 663 01:01:23,505 --> 01:01:27,321 To me it wasn't a proper film. Just some shots 664 01:01:29,391 --> 01:01:33,790 Again and again one can see clearly that Hitler was not yet in sole command 665 01:01:34,597 --> 01:01:37,090 Beside him, and on the same level stands his 666 01:01:37,090 --> 01:01:39,627 storm trooper commander, Ernst Röhm 667 01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:42,989 Shortly afterwards, Hitler had him assassinated 668 01:02:11,660 --> 01:02:14,182 An attempt by the the party to boycott her filming angered 669 01:02:14,304 --> 01:02:18,255 angered Riefenstahl so much that she immediately complained to Hitler 670 01:02:23,538 --> 01:02:26,648 I explained exactly what the problem was 671 01:02:26,940 --> 01:02:33,046 Goebbels was present, and you can imagine what happened next 672 01:02:33,620 --> 01:02:37,077 Goebbels went white as a sheet 673 01:02:37,210 --> 01:02:41,946 Hitler was furious, beside himself. He said: 674 01:02:42,245 --> 01:02:46,652 "This must never happen again. You will make the film next year" 675 01:02:46,808 --> 01:02:49,976 I said I can't. I'll never do another one" 676 01:02:50,264 --> 01:02:52,731 I'd made up my mind not to 677 01:02:52,992 --> 01:02:55,941 I ran out in floods of tears... 678 01:02:56,230 --> 01:03:01,308 ...and soon after I got home, there was a phone call to say... 679 01:03:01,563 --> 01:03:04,176 ...I had to go and see Goebbels 680 01:03:04,452 --> 01:03:09,544 It was the day Goebbels went to Geneva... 681 01:03:09,709 --> 01:03:14,538 ...to announce that Germany was leaving the League of Nations 682 01:03:14,818 --> 01:03:16,207 That's why I remember 683 01:03:16,579 --> 01:03:22,662 I got to his office in the Propaganda Ministry and he screamed at me: 684 01:03:24,716 --> 01:03:29,003 "If you were a man and not a woman... 685 01:03:29,246 --> 01:03:31,620 "...I'd throw you downstairs 686 01:03:38,649 --> 01:03:44,694 "You're a dangerous woman. Never let me set eyes on you again" 687 01:03:44,838 --> 01:03:47,464 That's how it ended 688 01:03:47,718 --> 01:03:52,324 And everything that came later resulted from this hate 689 01:03:52,766 --> 01:03:57,276 In 1934, Riefenstahl was back filming in Nuremberg 690 01:03:57,590 --> 01:04:00,989 This time she was given a free hand, a triumph of her own will, 691 01:03:59,238 --> 01:04:02,505 {\a8}TRIUMPH OF THE WILL 692 01:04:00,989 --> 01:04:02,544 or a pact with the devil 693 01:04:02,615 --> 01:04:05,055 Today it's easy to think that 694 01:04:05,313 --> 01:04:11,386 Now that we know all the terrible things he did and got others to do... 695 01:04:11,635 --> 01:04:16,670 then clearly it was a pact with the Devil 696 01:04:16,959 --> 01:04:18,505 But we didn't know then 697 01:04:18,768 --> 01:04:24,313 Hitler probably was schizophrenic, both a devil... 698 01:04:24,454 --> 01:04:29,822 ...and its opposite, but we could only see one side of him 699 01:04:29,966 --> 01:04:33,174 Not that terrible, dangerous side 700 01:04:50,438 --> 01:04:53,435 I just wanted to act 701 01:04:53,734 --> 01:04:56,938 I didn't want to take on this terrible workload 702 01:04:57,090 --> 01:05:02,470 I wasn't against it for political reasons. Not at all 703 01:05:02,759 --> 01:05:06,005 I just wanted to do something different 704 01:05:06,419 --> 01:05:09,008 But Hitler's wish was his command 705 01:05:09,298 --> 01:05:15,105 It would have been difficult if not impossible to get out of it 706 01:05:15,316 --> 01:05:21,383 I made one last attempt by driving to Nuremberg where I knew Hitler was 707 01:05:21,515 --> 01:05:26,844 I saw him at a meeting with Speer and others, and he had the plans 708 01:05:27,136 --> 01:05:28,051 He said: 709 01:05:28,447 --> 01:05:33,966 "Fräulein Riefenstahl, give me six days of your life, just six days 710 01:05:34,739 --> 01:05:40,693 "I want this film to be made by an artist and not a Party film-director" 711 01:05:41,949 --> 01:05:43,964 "I'll make it", I said... 712 01:05:44,245 --> 01:05:50,449 "...if you promise me I'll never have to make another film for the Reich... 713 01:05:50,591 --> 01:05:53,551 "...for you or the Party" 714 01:06:06,951 --> 01:06:11,699 At vast expense, Riefenstahl made 'Triumph of the Will', which to this day 715 01:06:11,699 --> 01:06:16,531 is regarded by film historians as the best propaganda film of all time 716 01:06:17,284 --> 01:06:20,567 Riefenstahl has always maintained that the making of this film 717 01:06:20,567 --> 01:06:24,272 was just a job, which she performed to perfection 718 01:06:27,954 --> 01:06:33,071 When I began my documentary... 719 01:06:33,316 --> 01:06:39,418 ...I wondered what I could do to make it better than the newsreels 720 01:06:39,724 --> 01:06:45,903 In 1934, when I made 'Triumph of the Will'... 721 01:06:46,723 --> 01:06:52,185 ...newsreels were very static, no movement, no travelling shots 722 01:06:52,428 --> 01:06:57,775 I thought the shots should be made mobile and thus more interesting 723 01:06:58,045 --> 01:07:02,560 That's why my crew began trying to shoot on roller-skates 724 01:07:02,693 --> 01:07:05,704 But above all I needed lots of different... 725 01:07:05,981 --> 01:07:07,488 ...camera positions 726 01:08:12,620 --> 01:08:16,951 It doesn't look like a documentary, more like an art film 727 01:08:17,110 --> 01:08:19,781 How did you achieve this artistic intensity? 728 01:08:20,081 --> 01:08:25,694 It's a feeling for links between images 729 01:08:25,848 --> 01:08:29,244 A connection between one picture and the next... 730 01:08:29,577 --> 01:08:35,048 ...or from one visual colour-range, say from grey tones, to another 731 01:08:35,347 --> 01:08:38,996 It's like a musical composition 732 01:08:39,288 --> 01:08:41,519 It's very important... 733 01:08:41,797 --> 01:08:47,413 ...to put climax at the right point in a film... 734 01:08:47,708 --> 01:08:50,783 ...so that there's a continuous build-up 735 01:09:13,846 --> 01:09:16,331 We stand here 736 01:09:17,255 --> 01:09:19,807 We stand at the ready... 737 01:09:20,072 --> 01:09:24,006 ...to take Germany into the new age 738 01:09:24,272 --> 01:09:25,613 Germany 739 01:09:25,930 --> 01:09:29,593 I tried a hundred different ways at the editing stage 740 01:09:29,831 --> 01:09:32,611 It took me over five months 741 01:09:32,754 --> 01:09:38,253 First I was working 12 hours a day, then 14, 18... 742 01:09:38,390 --> 01:09:40,679 ...and in the end 20 743 01:09:40,957 --> 01:09:46,228 That meant I couldn't do anything but sit at my editing-suite... 744 01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:50,908 ...trying to find ways to avoid jumps... 745 01:09:51,011 --> 01:09:54,765 ...so it would all flow in an interesting way 746 01:09:55,178 --> 01:09:57,874 I tried hundreds of ways 747 01:09:58,147 --> 01:09:59,989 Comrade, where are you from? 748 01:10:02,021 --> 01:10:03,327 From Friesland 749 01:10:04,462 --> 01:10:05,973 And you? 750 01:10:06,101 --> 01:10:08,023 - From Bavaria - And you? 751 01:10:09,174 --> 01:10:10,885 From Kaiserstuhl 752 01:10:11,156 --> 01:10:12,134 And you? 753 01:10:12,373 --> 01:10:13,663 From Pomerania 754 01:10:13,941 --> 01:10:15,632 And from Königsberg 755 01:10:15,775 --> 01:10:17,018 From Silesia 756 01:10:17,267 --> 01:10:19,289 From the North Sea coast 757 01:10:19,540 --> 01:10:21,408 From Black Forest 758 01:10:21,670 --> 01:10:22,826 From Dresden 759 01:10:23,231 --> 01:10:25,701 - From the Danube - From the Rhine 760 01:10:25,847 --> 01:10:27,743 And from the Saar 761 01:10:27,881 --> 01:10:28,876 One people... 762 01:10:30,221 --> 01:10:32,408 ...one Führer, one Reich 763 01:10:33,976 --> 01:10:35,240 Germany 764 01:10:36,015 --> 01:10:39,574 This artistic depth you mention... 765 01:10:39,719 --> 01:10:44,770 ...brought accusations against you later of glorifying the Nazis 766 01:10:45,367 --> 01:10:51,587 But those people should have tried making the film themselves 767 01:10:52,579 --> 01:10:57,117 Either one makes a newsreel and those were made... 768 01:10:57,397 --> 01:11:01,154 ...or one can try to make the material into a film... 769 01:11:01,293 --> 01:11:05,126 ...that's more interesting - but without posed shots 770 01:11:06,598 --> 01:11:08,500 In Flanders... 771 01:11:10,277 --> 01:11:11,808 ...in the west... 772 01:11:11,972 --> 01:11:13,835 ...in the east... 773 01:11:13,999 --> 01:11:15,788 ...in the south... 774 01:11:17,463 --> 01:11:22,886 ...on land and water and in the skies... 775 01:11:25,941 --> 01:11:31,043 ...the Red menace and forces of reaction have been brought down 776 01:11:34,630 --> 01:11:37,783 Did you notice that in this film... 777 01:11:37,927 --> 01:11:43,713 ...there was no commentary in the normal sense of the word? 778 01:11:43,874 --> 01:11:48,021 There's no commentator to explain everything 779 01:11:48,331 --> 01:11:50,967 That's one way it differs... 780 01:11:51,337 --> 01:11:55,571 ...from a documentary and a propaganda film 781 01:11:55,696 --> 01:12:00,936 If it were propaganda, as many say, there'd be a commentator... 782 01:12:01,201 --> 01:12:05,974 ...to explain the significance and value of the occasion 783 01:12:06,250 --> 01:12:07,531 This wasn't the case 784 01:12:08,763 --> 01:12:10,850 The looming close-ups of Hitler in this film 785 01:12:10,850 --> 01:12:13,612 were the first that the German people had ever seen 786 01:12:26,585 --> 01:12:31,788 It wasn't hard because Hitler never let himself be distracted 787 01:12:32,073 --> 01:12:34,351 You could dance round him all you liked 788 01:12:34,618 --> 01:12:36,480 Didn't you build a track round him? 789 01:12:36,821 --> 01:12:42,429 Yes, that was one idea. I had to film 3 or 4 of Hitler's speeches 790 01:12:42,701 --> 01:12:48,353 How could I make each one different and avoid repetition? 791 01:12:48,475 --> 01:12:54,640 I thought, for one of the speeches, of laying a circular track round him 792 01:12:54,906 --> 01:12:59,930 The speech would be more interesting than if shot from a fixed point 793 01:13:00,745 --> 01:13:04,676 We want a final end to class differences 794 01:13:04,816 --> 01:13:09,696 You must not let them develop among you 795 01:13:10,271 --> 01:13:13,976 We want one day to see one Reich 796 01:13:14,251 --> 01:13:18,090 You must make yourselves fit for it 797 01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:22,222 We want this people one day to be obedient... 798 01:13:22,496 --> 01:13:25,553 ...so you must learn obedience 799 01:13:25,836 --> 01:13:31,879 We want our people to be peace-loving but also brave... 800 01:13:32,160 --> 01:13:34,636 ...so you must be peaceable 801 01:13:45,599 --> 01:13:47,828 You see that lift there? 802 01:13:49,273 --> 01:13:53,824 We had such difficulty getting permission for that. I'll run it back 803 01:13:54,112 --> 01:13:55,745 We got permission... 804 01:13:55,997 --> 01:14:00,880 ...to build a tiny camera lift into the flag-poles 805 01:14:01,402 --> 01:14:05,121 The effect was very good 806 01:14:10,861 --> 01:14:13,041 What's striking is the contrast... 807 01:14:13,294 --> 01:14:17,794 ...between the huge crowds and one individual - Hitler 808 01:14:18,068 --> 01:14:19,741 Is that a conscious technique? 809 01:14:20,023 --> 01:14:24,556 There was nothing else. Just Hitler and the people 810 01:14:48,750 --> 01:14:53,411 Wasn't it difficult since you had no idea about politics... 811 01:14:53,717 --> 01:14:55,887 ...to edit political speeches? 812 01:14:56,166 --> 01:14:59,960 That has nothing to do with politics. It's a technical matter 813 01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:03,830 If a 2-hour speech, regardless of it content... 814 01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:09,916 ...trees or fish or politics - needs cutting down to 5 minutes... 815 01:15:10,208 --> 01:15:14,115 ...any editor will take out everything he can 816 01:15:14,373 --> 01:15:18,371 The speech must have a beginning and an end... 817 01:15:18,719 --> 01:15:23,335 ...and two or three important sentences in the middle 818 01:15:23,618 --> 01:15:28,711 Everything else has to go. You need a real beginning, an end... 819 01:15:28,941 --> 01:15:34,106 ...and in the middle something which thrills the people 820 01:15:34,378 --> 01:15:37,881 Any editor can do that. It's not a problem 821 01:15:38,129 --> 01:15:40,085 You were guided by the applause? 822 01:15:40,230 --> 01:15:42,700 Yes, the effect, people's expressions 823 01:15:42,957 --> 01:15:44,508 If you're an editor... 824 01:15:44,777 --> 01:15:50,090 ...and you can cut out Hitler wiping his nose or coughing... 825 01:15:50,341 --> 01:15:56,541 ...you drop that and use the shots where his expression is more interesting 826 01:15:56,699 --> 01:16:01,502 Of course you do. An editor must decide which shots work best 827 01:16:01,776 --> 01:16:07,046 That isn't politics. Anyway, a speech will only have one theme 828 01:16:07,310 --> 01:16:09,890 We live by one great commandment... 829 01:16:10,685 --> 01:16:14,875 ...and this was not given us... 830 01:16:15,156 --> 01:16:17,199 ...by any earthly authority 831 01:16:17,339 --> 01:16:19,625 It was given us by God... 832 01:16:19,872 --> 01:16:22,293 ...who created our people 833 01:16:27,656 --> 01:16:32,136 These Congresses were so well staged, and still seem so today 834 01:16:32,386 --> 01:16:35,868 Did you direct them or who planned them? 835 01:16:36,265 --> 01:16:39,502 Don't make me laugh. Why should I be involved? 836 01:16:39,725 --> 01:16:43,537 I wasn't even a Party member, let alone an organiser 837 01:16:43,796 --> 01:16:46,673 What makes you think I was involved? 838 01:16:46,966 --> 01:16:50,905 They were great productions. Who dreamed them up? 839 01:16:51,132 --> 01:16:53,484 - Hitler and Speer - All by themselves? 840 01:16:53,686 --> 01:16:59,717 Yes. I had nothing to do with it. I knew nothing. I'd no idea about it 841 01:17:00,033 --> 01:17:03,591 I just observed and tried to film it well 842 01:17:03,826 --> 01:17:08,503 The idea that I helped to plan it is downright absurd 843 01:17:21,059 --> 01:17:24,846 Those crowd scenes look like something out of a Wagner opera 844 01:17:24,993 --> 01:17:28,135 You see such scenes in Moscow and Peking 845 01:17:28,405 --> 01:17:33,745 You saw those huge parades a few months ago... 846 01:17:33,896 --> 01:17:38,025 ...in Peking and in Korea. You see them everywhere 847 01:17:38,166 --> 01:17:40,534 Those parades were vast 848 01:17:40,810 --> 01:17:44,444 Far more grandiose than in 'Triumph of the Will' 849 01:17:44,741 --> 01:17:48,368 You saw weapons and missiles going past 850 01:17:48,513 --> 01:17:53,912 Platform decorated with hundreds of red flags. All on a huge scale 851 01:19:20,063 --> 01:19:24,658 It had to be filmed the way an artist, not a politician, sees it 852 01:19:24,968 --> 01:19:30,775 Hitler didn't want a political film. He wanted an artistic film 853 01:19:30,927 --> 01:19:35,064 That's what he got. I'd no idea I could do it 854 01:19:35,306 --> 01:19:38,825 My not wanting to make the film had nothing to do with politics 855 01:19:39,085 --> 01:19:44,285 I just lacked confidence. It seemed an insoluble task 856 01:19:44,599 --> 01:19:49,449 Still, you were later accused of seducing people with this film 857 01:19:49,592 --> 01:19:53,770 OK, a few idiots say that 858 01:19:53,917 --> 01:19:56,986 All I can say is it's thoroughly stupid 859 01:19:57,267 --> 01:20:01,861 It would mean that I staged it, that I was Hitler himself... 860 01:20:02,053 --> 01:20:05,673 ...and I'd made all these people pose for me 861 01:20:47,223 --> 01:20:51,163 Didn't a film-maker have terrific public influence... 862 01:20:51,308 --> 01:20:54,025 ...in the days before radio and television? 863 01:20:54,392 --> 01:20:57,840 Doesn't that artist have a special responsibility? 864 01:20:58,121 --> 01:20:59,860 What was my responsibility? 865 01:21:00,219 --> 01:21:04,233 By that time 90% of the people were in favour of Hitler 866 01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:09,517 Should I have been a resistance fighter? There were a very few of those 867 01:21:09,783 --> 01:21:12,970 Should I have been one of them? 868 01:21:13,190 --> 01:21:16,130 No, since you say politics didn't interest you... 869 01:21:16,411 --> 01:21:20,814 Not at all. To me the film wasn't about politics, it was an event 870 01:21:21,056 --> 01:21:26,256 I'd have made exactly the same film in Moscow, if the need arose... 871 01:21:26,410 --> 01:21:28,502 ...though I'd have preferred not 872 01:21:28,740 --> 01:21:32,890 Or in America, if something of the sort had taken place there 873 01:21:33,488 --> 01:21:39,607 I shot the subject-matter as well as I could and shaped it into a film 874 01:21:40,468 --> 01:21:45,806 Now, whether it was about politics or about vegetables or fruit... 875 01:21:46,074 --> 01:21:50,034 ...I couldn't give a damn. I don't get it 876 01:21:50,420 --> 01:21:52,011 If I'd been political... 877 01:21:52,158 --> 01:21:56,811 ...I'd have joined the Party and I would have been interested 878 01:21:57,032 --> 01:22:03,218 - I didn't mean it like that - I never went to any meetings 879 01:22:03,496 --> 01:22:08,769 I turned down all offers to make other political films 880 01:22:09,148 --> 01:22:10,680 I never made a single one 881 01:22:10,830 --> 01:22:12,558 My question is this 882 01:22:12,865 --> 01:22:16,770 If one works in the media, mustn't one interest oneself in politics? 883 01:22:17,037 --> 01:22:22,086 Nowadays, perhaps, but not then. And anyway, who'd have done it? 884 01:22:22,368 --> 01:22:24,106 Everyone was behind Hitler 885 01:22:56,451 --> 01:22:58,824 If you were an artist today... 886 01:22:59,088 --> 01:23:04,083 ...what would you feel your political responsibility to be? 887 01:23:04,332 --> 01:23:10,433 The artist should maybe ask himself what will be done with his creation 888 01:23:10,673 --> 01:23:13,975 How are we to judge artists... 889 01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:20,244 ...who, for example, made films during the Stalin period? 890 01:23:20,456 --> 01:23:24,260 Like Eisenstein or Pudovkin. What should we say... 891 01:23:24,520 --> 01:23:29,457 ...about those who made films - very good ones - in the GDR? 892 01:23:29,731 --> 01:23:34,981 What should we say about artists who made good films in the Third Reich? 893 01:23:35,230 --> 01:23:41,125 What does political responsibility mean? And to whom is one responsible? 894 01:23:41,409 --> 01:23:44,727 Take politics today. How can you tell... 895 01:23:44,879 --> 01:23:48,171 ...who can assure us the right kind of future? 896 01:23:48,534 --> 01:23:50,859 It's our desire and intention... 897 01:23:51,123 --> 01:23:53,438 ...that this Reich shall exist... 898 01:23:53,731 --> 01:23:55,796 ...for thousands of years to come 899 01:23:56,050 --> 01:23:57,333 We can be happy... 900 01:23:57,605 --> 01:24:03,459 ...in the knowledge that this future belongs wholly to us 901 01:24:16,197 --> 01:24:18,743 There's another thing I want to say 902 01:24:18,991 --> 01:24:24,347 If an artist dedicates himself totally to his work... 903 01:24:24,667 --> 01:24:26,945 ...he cannot think politically 904 01:24:27,602 --> 01:24:31,613 That's true of practically every artist in the past... 905 01:24:31,877 --> 01:24:35,234 ...who produced great works 906 01:24:35,493 --> 01:24:41,264 Be it Michelangelo, Rodin, Rubens or the Impressionists 907 01:24:41,638 --> 01:24:44,089 None of these people... 908 01:24:44,476 --> 01:24:47,880 ...had any time a feeling for politics 909 01:24:48,125 --> 01:24:52,213 And even if they had, they shouldn't see into the future 910 01:24:52,473 --> 01:24:55,521 You also asked - I'll answer that later... 911 01:24:55,784 --> 01:24:59,529 ...whether 'Triumph of the Will' had any message 912 01:24:59,775 --> 01:25:05,483 While I was actually filming, of course I had no such thoughts 913 01:25:05,759 --> 01:25:08,515 But when I was editing... 914 01:25:08,797 --> 01:25:14,577 ...I did discover a certain message in it. You can find it yourself 915 01:25:14,828 --> 01:25:20,913 It's firstly the creation of jobs, through the labour-service scheme... 916 01:25:21,166 --> 01:25:25,440 ...and above all the speech by Hess where he says: 917 01:25:25,567 --> 01:25:26,788 You were... 918 01:25:27,085 --> 01:25:29,645 ...the guarantor of victory 919 01:25:30,048 --> 01:25:34,365 You are our guarantor of peace 920 01:25:34,593 --> 01:25:37,694 Adolf Hitler. Sieg heil! 921 01:25:43,743 --> 01:25:47,854 At the time we felt that one of the messages was peace 922 01:25:47,985 --> 01:25:50,858 It recurs throughout the film 923 01:25:51,001 --> 01:25:54,421 Other political motives or objectives aren't mentioned 924 01:25:54,571 --> 01:25:58,363 There's nothing about anti-semitism or race-theory 925 01:25:58,629 --> 01:26:02,905 Work and peace are the only messages in 'Triumph of the Will' 926 01:26:25,730 --> 01:26:29,947 There were films with far more swastika-banners... 927 01:26:30,198 --> 01:26:32,573 ...full of political bias 928 01:26:32,706 --> 01:26:34,766 'Triumph' had none of this... 929 01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:40,711 ...so I never felt I'd done anything that could do any damage 930 01:26:40,869 --> 01:26:46,953 If it had been harmful, the French would never have given it a gold medal... 931 01:26:41,152 --> 01:26:42,176 Olympic's film on camera 932 01:26:42,432 --> 01:26:43,456 That was a week before war broke out 933 01:26:43,968 --> 01:26:45,504 At the time she says, all that matter to her was the aesthetics of film 934 01:26:47,199 --> 01:26:51,789 ...two years before the outbreak of war 935 01:26:55,725 --> 01:27:00,264 The National Film Prize for 1934/35 is awarded... 936 01:27:00,544 --> 01:27:04,932 ...to Leni Riefenstahl for her film of the Nuremberg Party Congress... 937 01:27:05,174 --> 01:27:06,963 'Triumph of the Will' 938 01:27:08,766 --> 01:27:12,038 This work stands out as a great achievement... 939 01:27:12,306 --> 01:27:15,102 ...in the year's film output 940 01:27:15,619 --> 01:27:20,013 It is especially relevant because it presents our age 941 01:27:20,274 --> 01:27:23,819 It shows, in monumental images never before seen... 942 01:27:23,953 --> 01:27:28,028 ...the thrilling events of our political life 943 01:27:28,559 --> 01:27:34,088 It is the great vision of the Führer on film... 944 01:27:34,212 --> 01:27:38,575 ...presented in images of a vividness never before seen 945 01:27:38,835 --> 01:27:42,253 Politically speaking, the significance of this film... 946 01:27:42,415 --> 01:27:45,950 ...was that it was in tune with the times 947 01:27:46,107 --> 01:27:51,446 That's to say, 90% of Germans, and a majority of foreigners... 948 01:27:51,716 --> 01:27:55,918 ...believed in the peace that was being proclaimed 949 01:28:17,341 --> 01:28:21,565 When you look at 'Triumph of the Will' now... 950 01:28:21,834 --> 01:28:24,273 ...you must be proud of it 951 01:28:24,532 --> 01:28:29,907 But it had also made the second half of your life extremely hard 952 01:28:30,164 --> 01:28:31,530 How do you see it? 953 01:28:31,730 --> 01:28:34,887 I've never been proud of it. Neither today, nor then 954 01:28:35,148 --> 01:28:40,380 Proud of what? All that was slaving, all that work - it was ghastly 955 01:28:40,653 --> 01:28:46,283 I nearly ruined my health editing the film, and for what? 956 01:28:46,558 --> 01:28:49,868 True, the film was considered a good documentary 957 01:28:50,010 --> 01:28:54,642 But since the war it's been slated because it's seen as propaganda 958 01:28:54,769 --> 01:28:59,764 Before the war, of course, the film got all the international awards... 959 01:28:59,897 --> 01:29:04,846 ...like the Gold Medal in Paris and the one at the Biennale 960 01:29:05,100 --> 01:29:08,450 But after the war I not only got brickbats... 961 01:29:08,682 --> 01:29:11,406 ...I was castigated because of it 962 01:29:11,547 --> 01:29:13,594 So not only am I not proud... 963 01:29:13,852 --> 01:29:18,849 ...I'm deeply unhappy I made it 964 01:29:19,107 --> 01:29:24,045 If I'd known what the film would bring me. I'd never have made it 965 01:29:32,208 --> 01:29:34,984 Half a century later, the terrible legacy 966 01:29:35,052 --> 01:29:38,184 of the Nazis is still being digested in Germany 967 01:29:40,551 --> 01:29:44,185 After the war, Leni Riefenstahl, the obsessed and politically 968 01:29:44,314 --> 01:29:48,824 blinkered filmmaker was boycotted and universally despised 969 01:29:49,673 --> 01:29:54,133 To this day, she's not been able to make another film, that is the price 970 01:29:54,133 --> 01:29:57,966 she's had to pay for her brilliant career under the Nazis 971 01:30:05,409 --> 01:30:09,660 This shot is one of my favorites 972 01:30:09,932 --> 01:30:15,898 I got the effect... I brought out the festive quality... 973 01:30:17,404 --> 01:30:19,285 ...by using a telephoto lens 974 01:30:21,415 --> 01:30:25,132 That's why the banners look so densely packed 975 01:30:30,518 --> 01:30:32,979 And here comes something else 976 01:30:33,303 --> 01:30:36,984 It's the effect of the shots taken from the lift 977 01:30:39,771 --> 01:30:41,338 Now the camera swings... 978 01:30:43,286 --> 01:30:46,008 ...to one side... 979 01:30:47,398 --> 01:30:48,729 ...over to the right 980 01:30:51,559 --> 01:30:54,176 And then the camera swings... 981 01:30:54,339 --> 01:30:55,412 ...the other way... 982 01:30:56,632 --> 01:30:58,205 ...to the left 983 01:31:00,036 --> 01:31:05,664 These two angles produce the form of a circle... 984 01:31:05,936 --> 01:31:07,889 ...thus making a powerful impact 985 01:31:09,254 --> 01:31:13,487 Here the two lines of banners appear to be cutting across each other 986 01:31:13,643 --> 01:31:16,954 That was made possible by using different camera positions 987 01:31:17,254 --> 01:31:21,254 And the editing gives it a balletic quality 988 01:31:21,527 --> 01:31:23,645 It's cut in time to the music 989 01:31:28,060 --> 01:31:31,132 Those are the banners of the Stahlhelm 990 01:31:31,266 --> 01:31:36,448 There were various formations marching past 991 01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:41,258 That's interesting too 992 01:31:41,393 --> 01:31:43,970 {\a8}The way they walk down the steps 993 01:31:42,769 --> 01:31:46,620 Today, Triumph of the Will remains under lockened key in Germany 994 01:31:45,204 --> 01:31:47,041 {\a8}Here, do you see? 995 01:31:47,399 --> 01:31:50,026 People are still afraid to examine the film seriously 996 01:31:51,010 --> 01:31:53,551 {\a8}Precisely in time with the music 997 01:31:52,807 --> 01:31:55,374 Can a film really be that dangerous? 998 01:31:56,033 --> 01:32:01,296 Or is it too vivid a reminder of something that many would prefer to forget 999 01:32:01,859 --> 01:32:03,727 Interesting, isn't it? 1000 01:32:04,632 --> 01:32:08,214 End of the first part 1001 01:32:58,855 --> 01:33:04,949 In 1936, Leni Riefenstahl made the official film of the Olympic Games in Berlin 1002 01:33:17,609 --> 01:33:21,060 After the war, this documentary was listed in America as one of the 1003 01:33:21,060 --> 01:33:23,143 world's ten best films 1004 01:33:25,720 --> 01:33:31,822 I wondered, could I make this film? Could I make it interesting? 1005 01:33:31,966 --> 01:33:35,621 And suddenly I had before my eyes a picture... 1006 01:33:35,879 --> 01:33:41,104 ...of the Olympic Games in ancient Greece 1007 01:33:41,256 --> 01:33:42,733 Not only the stadium... 1008 01:33:42,975 --> 01:33:47,758 ...but the whole culture - the temples, the sculptures 1009 01:34:02,218 --> 01:34:05,366 The transition from the ancient world to the modern... 1010 01:34:05,609 --> 01:34:09,054 ...had wonderful dramatic possibilities 1011 01:34:09,331 --> 01:34:13,103 It was easier to present it in purely visual terms... 1012 01:34:13,221 --> 01:34:16,490 ...rather than as a series of actions 1013 01:35:01,615 --> 01:35:02,991 Riefenstahl was to direct the 1014 01:35:02,991 --> 01:35:05,863 entire film, even the sport sequences 1015 01:35:19,183 --> 01:35:22,630 Athlete models freeze by the bold take for Riefenstahl's camera 1016 01:35:43,047 --> 01:35:45,935 Under Riefenstahl's direction, the athletes would turn from 1017 01:35:45,935 --> 01:35:48,983 ordinary models into sporting Gods 1018 01:36:05,894 --> 01:36:10,612 - How did you prepare for the film? - Mainly by training the cameramen 1019 01:36:10,977 --> 01:36:13,953 Everything depended on them 1020 01:36:14,205 --> 01:36:18,790 I had four or five young men that I trained for months... 1021 01:36:18,934 --> 01:36:22,744 ...at athletics meetings, football matches and so on 1022 01:36:23,029 --> 01:36:27,585 Often without film, just to practice camera movements... 1023 01:36:27,720 --> 01:36:32,953 ...and get the quick reactions we needed 1024 01:36:34,281 --> 01:36:38,109 Never before had so much been spent on preparing to film a documentary 1025 01:36:38,735 --> 01:36:42,585 Officially Riefenstahl had received the assignment from the Olympic committee, 1026 01:36:43,144 --> 01:36:46,291 but it was the German Ministry of Propaganda which actually provided 1027 01:36:46,291 --> 01:36:48,961 the funds through indirect channels 1028 01:36:49,695 --> 01:36:52,588 Despite the economic problems of the times, the resources put 1029 01:36:52,588 --> 01:36:55,551 to the director's disposal were almost unlimited 1030 01:36:56,301 --> 01:36:59,742 For the first time in many years, Riefenstahl is reunited 1031 01:36:57,145 --> 01:36:58,315 {\a8}You still look so well 1032 01:36:58,315 --> 01:37:00,627 {\a8}I've no complaints 1033 01:36:59,742 --> 01:37:01,742 with two of her old cameramen 1034 01:37:00,832 --> 01:37:03,435 {\a8}Congratulations 1035 01:37:03,555 --> 01:37:06,588 You never change, do you? 1036 01:37:09,598 --> 01:37:15,909 My two best cameramen here again after half a century 1037 01:37:16,537 --> 01:37:19,991 Walter Frentz on the right was an expert in handheld camera 1038 01:37:20,298 --> 01:37:22,288 On the left is Guzzi Lantschner 1039 01:37:22,522 --> 01:37:25,894 I'll tell you something. Diving I can still do... 1040 01:37:26,165 --> 01:37:30,953 ...but that film - I couldn't make it again 1041 01:37:31,156 --> 01:37:32,970 Much too strenuous 1042 01:37:34,294 --> 01:37:36,232 We worked like mad 1043 01:37:36,369 --> 01:37:41,108 Late into the night. We couldn't do that now 1044 01:37:54,942 --> 01:37:58,490 Look. Just as it was 1045 01:37:58,769 --> 01:38:01,592 Do you remember, Guzzi... 1046 01:38:01,875 --> 01:38:05,144 ...how we looked for places to get the best angles? 1047 01:38:05,451 --> 01:38:09,069 We turned the stadium into a film studio 1048 01:38:12,063 --> 01:38:15,170 Many technical innovations were tried out in Olympiad 1049 01:38:15,579 --> 01:38:18,754 It was the first film in which pits were dug, so that the athletes 1050 01:38:18,754 --> 01:38:20,450 could be filmed against the sky 1051 01:38:22,603 --> 01:38:25,509 We had to fight for every hole we dug 1052 01:38:25,631 --> 01:38:27,137 You were always the one... 1053 01:38:27,371 --> 01:38:29,999 ...with the exact eye... 1054 01:38:30,148 --> 01:38:31,557 ...for a shot 1055 01:38:31,821 --> 01:38:34,977 Whether it should be half a metre right or left 1056 01:38:36,218 --> 01:38:38,975 Riefenstahl now had the full scope to apply the lesson 1057 01:38:38,975 --> 01:38:42,054 she had learned from Arnold Fanck, her great mentor 1058 01:38:45,131 --> 01:38:51,264 The best idea we had - I think it was your idea - was the catapult 1059 01:38:51,960 --> 01:38:56,103 We built a track with a catapult on it which travelled... 1060 01:38:56,385 --> 01:38:58,177 ...alongside the sprinters 1061 01:38:58,470 --> 01:39:03,172 It was fantastic but they banned it 1062 01:39:05,420 --> 01:39:07,419 We had lots of new ideas 1063 01:39:07,698 --> 01:39:11,512 Yes. The most important one was... 1064 01:39:11,782 --> 01:39:15,244 ...digging a hole for the pole-vault 1065 01:39:15,793 --> 01:39:18,181 Out in the field, to the left 1066 01:39:18,437 --> 01:39:20,910 And we filmed the whole thing... 1067 01:39:21,262 --> 01:39:26,038 ...against the Olympic flame. It gave us some marvellous shots 1068 01:39:26,284 --> 01:39:30,126 She was later reproached for many of the images pioneered in Olympiad 1069 01:39:30,529 --> 01:39:33,044 Her critics felt that the cult of the body beautiful 1070 01:39:33,256 --> 01:39:36,508 Riefenstahl's obsession with strength and athletic perfection 1071 01:39:36,752 --> 01:39:38,341 were unmistakably fascist 1072 01:39:39,445 --> 01:39:42,531 The same was later said of her photographs of Nuba tribesmen 1073 01:39:43,223 --> 01:39:46,417 It was important that each cameraman... 1074 01:39:46,687 --> 01:39:50,088 ...had a different lens and camera 1075 01:39:50,350 --> 01:39:55,833 You sometimes had a Bell and Howell and sometimes Sinclair 1076 01:39:55,965 --> 01:40:00,353 - And you had a Bell and Howell - With two speeds 1077 01:40:00,497 --> 01:40:04,518 Normal, 24 frames per second and fast, up to 48 1078 01:40:04,775 --> 01:40:07,272 That was important for the diving 1079 01:40:07,550 --> 01:40:10,650 The body could be seen so much more clearly 1080 01:40:10,910 --> 01:40:12,098 That was the first time... 1081 01:40:26,996 --> 01:40:31,481 Then we got the close-ups with the Ascania 1082 01:40:31,665 --> 01:40:36,906 We had a special lens made for us - a 600mm telephoto 1083 01:40:37,189 --> 01:40:39,695 They didn't exist then 1084 01:40:40,006 --> 01:40:44,587 Herr Shalck got those marvellous close-ups 1085 01:40:44,714 --> 01:40:47,860 Even though we couldn't get near the runners 1086 01:40:48,109 --> 01:40:50,620 We still got tight in on faces 1087 01:41:05,498 --> 01:41:11,243 Owens in the lead, Strandberg behind him, Rosenthal creeping up 1088 01:41:12,323 --> 01:41:17,630 Metcalfe makes a spurt. It's over. Owens wins the 100 metre sprint 1089 01:41:18,851 --> 01:41:20,511 I remember something else 1090 01:41:20,799 --> 01:41:23,474 The balloon. Do you remember? 1091 01:41:28,337 --> 01:41:31,899 Everyday we sent up a balloon... 1092 01:41:32,172 --> 01:41:35,814 ...with a tiny 5 metre camera... 1093 01:41:35,957 --> 01:41:39,556 ...to get an overall aerial view 1094 01:41:40,426 --> 01:41:46,698 Everyday it landed somewhere different - on roofs and things 1095 01:41:46,845 --> 01:41:51,067 None of the shots were any use 1096 01:41:55,565 --> 01:41:59,043 Anyone finding this camera would discover a little note in it 1097 01:41:59,149 --> 01:42:02,388 asking them to return it to the Leni Riefenstahl production team 1098 01:42:04,675 --> 01:42:08,840 We had the balloon at the regatta in Grünau 1099 01:42:09,125 --> 01:42:12,765 It crashed before the races finished 1100 01:42:13,028 --> 01:42:16,546 I cried. It was terrible 1101 01:42:19,972 --> 01:42:21,920 There was nothing they did not try out 1102 01:42:22,210 --> 01:42:26,001 A many of these experiments have become standard practice in film production 1103 01:42:28,462 --> 01:42:29,520 A break in the shoot 1104 01:42:29,826 --> 01:42:32,735 Leni and her old campaigners stop for coffee 1105 01:42:35,114 --> 01:42:38,334 I had so many arguments in those days 1106 01:42:38,731 --> 01:42:44,798 And them, in 1935, Churchill said "I envy the Germans their Führer" 1107 01:42:45,191 --> 01:42:51,181 I thought "How can I be cleverer than Churchill? He really said that" 1108 01:42:51,307 --> 01:42:57,513 Two years later, he said "The German swine must now be slaughtered" 1109 01:43:01,529 --> 01:43:04,890 I like your style. You'll do 1110 01:43:05,164 --> 01:43:07,166 And you were well in there... 1111 01:43:07,458 --> 01:43:12,572 ...because you flew to Moscow with Ribbentrop... 1112 01:43:13,206 --> 01:43:15,838 ...with the two copies of the Treaty 1113 01:43:16,141 --> 01:43:20,928 {\a8}Stalin wrote a letter which the Russian ambassador gave me 1114 01:43:19,756 --> 01:43:21,688 Riefenstahl refuses to get drawn into 1115 01:43:21,095 --> 01:43:24,370 {\a8}That was a week before war broke out 1116 01:43:21,688 --> 01:43:23,114 a political discussion about the 1117 01:43:23,114 --> 01:43:23,887 Olympic's film on camera 1118 01:43:25,517 --> 01:43:27,837 At the time she says all that mattered to her 1119 01:43:27,837 --> 01:43:29,548 was the aesthetics of film 1120 01:43:34,652 --> 01:43:36,243 I had 30 cameramen 1121 01:43:36,636 --> 01:43:42,238 Not all here. There were other events in Grünau and Kiel 1122 01:43:42,495 --> 01:43:48,266 There were also indoor events and the cameramen were spread around 1123 01:43:50,004 --> 01:43:54,265 Much of what is now a normal practice in an age of electronic live reporting, 1124 01:43:54,366 --> 01:43:57,038 was first tried out then by Leni Riefenstahl 1125 01:44:00,033 --> 01:44:03,763 In Olympiad, she set new standards for filming sporting events 1126 01:44:03,912 --> 01:44:07,570 and went far beyond the traditional bounds of a sport documentary 1127 01:44:08,412 --> 01:44:09,998 Nothing was left to chance 1128 01:44:10,554 --> 01:44:12,866 Dramatic scenes, which her crew could not get close enough to 1129 01:44:12,866 --> 01:44:16,503 during the competition, were filmed in advance during training 1130 01:44:16,697 --> 01:44:18,849 and later spliced into the final footage 1131 01:44:19,532 --> 01:44:23,207 In this way, many of the documentary sequences had changed the dramatic impact 1132 01:44:23,207 --> 01:44:24,466 of a feature film 1133 01:44:45,932 --> 01:44:49,409 It was worst when there were a lot of us 1134 01:44:49,688 --> 01:44:53,397 I had to assign jobs to everyone 1135 01:44:53,666 --> 01:44:58,748 I could only organise this once the day's shoot had finished 1136 01:44:58,897 --> 01:45:02,319 There was a production meeting every night 1137 01:45:02,548 --> 01:45:06,333 I'd have just 5 minutes to talk to each person... 1138 01:45:06,570 --> 01:45:10,233 ...and give out assignments... 1139 01:45:10,496 --> 01:45:12,828 {\a8}...according to people's skills 1140 01:45:12,033 --> 01:45:14,240 The logistics of the operation were remarkable 1141 01:45:14,436 --> 01:45:16,254 They had no walkie-talkies or talkback 1142 01:45:16,814 --> 01:45:19,894 Riefenstahl planned the entire shoot like a military campaign 1143 01:45:20,111 --> 01:45:22,899 Every camera angle was deliberate and coordinated 1144 01:45:23,187 --> 01:45:25,291 I really admired her 1145 01:45:25,567 --> 01:45:30,899 She had an incredible ability for composing shots 1146 01:45:31,163 --> 01:45:33,452 And a tremendous eye 1147 01:45:33,742 --> 01:45:39,826 The shots she selected were always just right 1148 01:46:28,126 --> 01:46:29,889 The winner is England 1149 01:46:33,348 --> 01:46:36,575 She had such energy and determination 1150 01:46:36,757 --> 01:46:40,339 When we began the Olympics film... 1151 01:46:40,506 --> 01:46:45,238 ...we wanted to dig a hole beside the pole-vault... 1152 01:46:45,421 --> 01:46:49,689 ...so we could film the vaulters against the sky 1153 01:46:49,990 --> 01:46:56,042 But the Olympic Committee said it would endanger the athletes 1154 01:46:56,184 --> 01:47:01,132 So Leni said "Let me talk to them" She went to the Committee and said: 1155 01:47:01,276 --> 01:47:05,437 "Our film will be ruined if we can't do this" 1156 01:47:05,583 --> 01:47:10,643 She came back that night and said "We can do it". I cried my eyes out 1157 01:47:25,666 --> 01:47:30,062 As a superbly organized sporting event, the Berlin Olympics gave the Nazis 1158 01:47:30,062 --> 01:47:32,985 an opportunity to present Germany as a peaceful, 1159 01:47:32,985 --> 01:47:36,643 tolerant and powerful nation. And it is natural to assume 1160 01:47:37,167 --> 01:47:39,383 that Hitler would've welcomed the games 1161 01:47:40,662 --> 01:47:45,203 Hitler wasn't pleased I was making the film 1162 01:47:45,459 --> 01:47:50,048 Hitler wasn't in the least interested in the Olympics 1163 01:47:50,745 --> 01:47:56,808 He didn't like the Games at all. He told me so himself 1164 01:47:57,352 --> 01:47:59,370 It was understandable 1165 01:47:59,935 --> 01:48:03,943 Hitler wouldn't enjoy watching blacks win 1166 01:48:04,234 --> 01:48:09,978 Seeing all those international stars when he was such a Nationalist 1167 01:48:11,595 --> 01:48:16,693 A new world record. And gold for America 1168 01:48:26,850 --> 01:48:32,074 Wasn't this a chance to present a certain image of Germany? 1169 01:48:32,355 --> 01:48:35,586 Possibly - but Hitler wasn't interested 1170 01:48:35,899 --> 01:48:39,523 It took a lot of convincing to make him come 1171 01:48:39,713 --> 01:48:43,632 Come to the Games and Germany will do better, they said 1172 01:48:43,973 --> 01:48:47,810 He didn't care. He didn't like the stadium 1173 01:48:48,090 --> 01:48:49,637 It was too small 1174 01:48:49,844 --> 01:48:52,767 He didn't like the architecture 1175 01:48:53,544 --> 01:48:56,495 Ask anyone who was there 1176 01:48:56,720 --> 01:49:00,720 They'll tell you Hitler had no interest in the Games 1177 01:49:08,095 --> 01:49:13,008 The result of all this complicated coverage was 250 miles of film 1178 01:49:13,371 --> 01:49:18,432 You shot 400 km of film. How did you cope with so much material? 1179 01:49:18,575 --> 01:49:24,659 First of all, people don't understand why we shot so much film 1180 01:49:24,814 --> 01:49:31,053 They should remember that there were 136 different events 1181 01:49:31,202 --> 01:49:37,055 In the athletics heats, we never knew if a record would be broken 1182 01:49:37,311 --> 01:49:43,274 So we had to film everything - hence the quantities of film 1183 01:49:44,774 --> 01:49:48,112 Once again, Riefenstahl's legendary sense of order 1184 01:49:48,112 --> 01:49:51,011 and impeccable planning enabled her and her team 1185 01:49:51,266 --> 01:49:53,461 to keep a grasp on this vast project 1186 01:49:54,040 --> 01:49:57,964 Even so, the editing alone took two years, as always, 1187 01:49:57,964 --> 01:50:02,370 she did it herself, obsessively editing and re-editing her film 1188 01:50:06,383 --> 01:50:08,445 This little machine... 1189 01:50:08,670 --> 01:50:12,903 The Litax machine invented by Dr. Fanck... 1190 01:50:13,066 --> 01:50:17,206 ...made it possible to edit very fast 1191 01:50:17,497 --> 01:50:23,607 We didn't have to splice the strips of film into reels... 1192 01:50:23,885 --> 01:50:26,501 ...which was so time consuming 1193 01:50:26,654 --> 01:50:32,812 All we did was slot the film into this machine... 1194 01:50:33,969 --> 01:50:37,033 ...and snap it shut 1195 01:50:37,187 --> 01:50:42,195 We could then look and edit the film accurately 1196 01:50:42,348 --> 01:50:47,928 If I don't like a sequence, I throw the film into the bin... 1197 01:50:48,799 --> 01:50:51,889 ...or put it round my neck for later 1198 01:50:52,175 --> 01:50:58,177 Then I take another sequence and compare it 1199 01:51:02,613 --> 01:51:05,458 This enables me... 1200 01:51:06,403 --> 01:51:08,888 ...without exaggeration... 1201 01:51:09,146 --> 01:51:14,341 ...to work ten times faster than otherwise 1202 01:51:14,503 --> 01:51:19,714 This system only works for documentaries, not for features... 1203 01:51:19,843 --> 01:51:23,190 ...because here the soundtrack is put on later 1204 01:51:29,508 --> 01:51:32,538 One of the most difficult sequences was the marathon. 1205 01:51:32,768 --> 01:51:35,163 The ultimate test of sporting endurance 1206 01:51:35,496 --> 01:51:37,868 Once again, she used feature film techniques 1207 01:51:37,868 --> 01:51:40,209 to capture the sweat and the pain 1208 01:51:40,938 --> 01:51:46,200 I had to think hard how I could shape the 26-mile race... 1209 01:51:46,456 --> 01:51:52,662 ...into a few short minutes that would be exciting and interesting 1210 01:51:52,801 --> 01:51:58,370 I soon realised I couldn't achieve this... 1211 01:51:58,646 --> 01:52:03,073 ...just by filming the race step by step 1212 01:52:03,342 --> 01:52:06,035 Instead, I'd have to try... 1213 01:52:06,171 --> 01:52:11,195 ...to show the feelings, the mental state of the marathon runners 1214 01:52:11,444 --> 01:52:15,505 And I thought I could best express that... 1215 01:52:15,791 --> 01:52:19,949 ...by showing the exhaustion in their faces 1216 01:52:20,206 --> 01:52:23,358 How, though their legs were like lead... 1217 01:52:23,577 --> 01:52:27,991 ...they didn't collapse but kept going by sheer willpower 1218 01:52:28,142 --> 01:52:33,378 Willpower can't be shown visually but can be indicated by music 1219 01:52:33,676 --> 01:52:38,967 If you listen, you'll hear the music seeming to drive the runners on 1220 01:52:52,489 --> 01:52:57,865 The music expresses the will not to collapse but to reach the stadium 1221 01:52:58,167 --> 01:53:03,079 The camera looks down the torso, as we'd practised it... 1222 01:53:03,383 --> 01:53:06,701 ...to the tired legs almost sticking to the asphalt 1223 01:53:06,930 --> 01:53:09,942 And this difference, this portrayal... 1224 01:53:10,194 --> 01:53:14,670 ...maybe raised the film above the level of ordinary reportage 1225 01:54:33,938 --> 01:54:39,017 Leni Riefenstahl, on an official mission, visits the exhibition 1226 01:54:39,290 --> 01:54:42,140 The star of German cinema speaks 1227 01:54:42,380 --> 01:54:47,998 You've been invited here to present your film 1228 01:54:48,138 --> 01:54:52,886 It was very hard work but I'm happy the task was entrusted to me 1229 01:54:53,145 --> 01:54:58,821 People don't understand why 'Olympia' has taken so long to release 1230 01:54:59,099 --> 01:55:03,072 We shot 400,000 metres of film 1231 01:55:03,314 --> 01:55:08,161 And it's a huge task, sorting through this footage... 1232 01:55:08,297 --> 01:55:11,658 ...putting it in order and making a film out of it 1233 01:55:12,190 --> 01:55:17,855 Just viewing all the film took 10 weeks 1234 01:55:18,004 --> 01:55:22,007 I spent 10 hours a day in the projection-room 1235 01:55:22,246 --> 01:55:25,059 That gives you an idea of what's involved 1236 01:55:27,439 --> 01:55:33,619 For the men's high diving, we experimented a lot 1237 01:55:34,058 --> 01:55:37,769 Up till then it had been done rather boringly... 1238 01:55:38,031 --> 01:55:41,896 ...with a single shot of the man plunging off the board 1239 01:55:42,023 --> 01:55:46,843 We set up three cameras for this event 1240 01:55:48,291 --> 01:55:52,045 Guzzi Lantschner was up there with a hand-held camera 1241 01:55:52,310 --> 01:55:54,334 And Hans Ertl below... 1242 01:55:54,458 --> 01:55:57,157 ...with an underwater camera 1243 01:55:57,315 --> 01:56:00,832 Over there was the slow motion camera... 1244 01:56:00,980 --> 01:56:04,593 ...so that the diving could be filmed from all angles 1245 01:56:04,729 --> 01:56:10,317 The most interesting experiment was the underwater shooting 1246 01:56:10,594 --> 01:56:12,519 It had never been done before 1247 01:56:12,808 --> 01:56:17,704 Ertl had built himself a camera and sat in the water 1248 01:56:17,845 --> 01:56:23,764 He followed the diver down till he hit the water... 1249 01:56:24,036 --> 01:56:26,740 ...switched to slow motion, changed focus... 1250 01:56:27,008 --> 01:56:31,583 ...and kept the camera on the diver until he surfaced 1251 01:56:38,770 --> 01:56:41,835 It's the Japanese girl again 1252 01:56:54,096 --> 01:56:57,439 We experimented with the swimming too 1253 01:56:57,653 --> 01:57:02,048 Over there for the swimming... 1254 01:57:02,280 --> 01:57:08,419 ...we pushed the camera along on a rubber raft, hanging from a rig... 1255 01:57:08,608 --> 01:57:12,528 ...to get close-ups of the swimmers' faces 1256 01:57:12,654 --> 01:57:16,315 But we couldn't use it in the finals 1257 01:57:18,846 --> 01:57:20,068 Higgins 1258 01:57:23,750 --> 01:57:24,943 Yldefonzo... 1259 01:57:26,839 --> 01:57:27,905 Koike... 1260 01:57:29,290 --> 01:57:30,563 Ito 1261 01:57:32,048 --> 01:57:33,977 A fight to the finish 1262 01:57:52,908 --> 01:57:55,089 I wanted a crescendo of intensity 1263 01:57:55,240 --> 01:58:00,950 I began mundanely enough with the women's diving... 1264 01:58:01,093 --> 01:58:06,851 ...giving the diver's names. With the men I left that out 1265 01:58:07,012 --> 01:58:11,581 I just edited to highlight the diving itself and the movement 1266 01:58:11,707 --> 01:58:15,366 They looked like birds swooping through the air 1267 01:58:15,625 --> 01:58:19,009 This looked very attractive... 1268 01:58:19,257 --> 01:58:23,439 ...so, to heighten the effect, I used different tempi when editing 1269 01:58:23,580 --> 01:58:28,500 If you look, you'll see the first dive is at normal speed 1270 01:58:28,639 --> 01:58:34,065 Then the next one is a bit slower - not quite slow motion but almost 1271 01:58:34,227 --> 01:58:38,208 And so on until full slow motion 1272 01:58:38,495 --> 01:58:43,708 But even that wasn't enough. They really had to look like birds 1273 01:58:46,676 --> 01:58:48,652 Her creative editing techniques are seen to 1274 01:58:48,652 --> 01:58:51,115 greatest artistic effect in high diving 1275 01:58:51,971 --> 01:58:55,136 It's only when you disentangle her handy work on an editing desk 1276 01:58:55,383 --> 01:58:58,337 that you realize how some of the sequences were printed backwards 1277 01:58:58,555 --> 01:59:01,071 and that the diver was actually springing out of water 1278 01:59:01,285 --> 01:59:04,604 reversing through the air and landing back on the spring-board 1279 01:59:17,894 --> 01:59:22,448 I achieved this by sometimes splicing in a sequence back to front 1280 01:59:22,716 --> 01:59:27,688 But it was hardly noticeable. It just enhanced the feeling of movement 1281 01:59:27,932 --> 01:59:31,541 It simply became a form of artistic expression 1282 02:00:19,066 --> 02:00:22,732 The creative sport photography in Olympiad has rarely been bettered 1283 02:00:23,236 --> 02:00:26,760 To what extent, though, of these films an expression of the Fascist spirit 1284 02:00:27,024 --> 02:00:29,325 which prevailed in Germany at that time? 1285 02:00:29,968 --> 02:00:32,683 Is Riefenstahl no more than an artist obsessed, 1286 02:00:32,916 --> 02:00:35,297 blind to events outside her cutting? 1287 02:00:36,389 --> 02:00:38,116 The question remains unanswered 1288 02:00:39,335 --> 02:00:43,675 Today, aged 90, she still repeats what she has always said 1289 02:00:44,036 --> 02:00:47,160 that art and politics are two different things, 1290 02:00:47,581 --> 02:00:50,045 that one has nothing to do with the other 1291 02:01:11,805 --> 02:01:16,182 The premier of Olympiad took place on Hitler's 49th birthday 1292 02:01:27,517 --> 02:01:31,103 Immediately afterwards, she went on a European tour with her film 1293 02:01:32,186 --> 02:01:35,007 It was hailed everywhere as a triumph and success 1294 02:01:35,988 --> 02:01:39,997 The German Film Prize 1937-38... 1295 02:01:40,122 --> 02:01:42,084 ...goes to Leni Riefenstahl... 1296 02:01:42,217 --> 02:01:46,633 ...for the film "Olympia" 1297 02:01:48,233 --> 02:01:51,455 April 1938, the premiere in Vienna 1298 02:01:51,858 --> 02:01:55,113 Eighteen months later, the Second World War broke out 1299 02:01:57,947 --> 02:02:03,398 All Vienna welcomes you 1300 02:02:03,629 --> 02:02:07,077 Thank you for your kind words 1301 02:02:07,327 --> 02:02:13,046 I am so very happy to be in Vienna and attending the premiere 1302 02:02:13,357 --> 02:02:15,974 I've not been here for five years 1303 02:02:16,228 --> 02:02:21,689 This is my first chance to see Vienna since our Führer came to power 1304 02:02:24,225 --> 02:02:27,033 In November of that year, Germany witnessed the notorious Kristallnacht 1305 02:02:28,238 --> 02:02:31,448 The persecution of the Jews reached new extremes 1306 02:02:35,656 --> 02:02:38,579 But once again Riefenstahl wasn't there to see it 1307 02:02:39,006 --> 02:02:42,714 It was on a boat sailing for New York that she first learnt of the Kristallnacht 1308 02:02:43,778 --> 02:02:45,576 But her trip to Hollywood was a fiasco 1309 02:02:46,239 --> 02:02:50,128 The film industry which included many German emigrants demanded a boycott 1310 02:02:50,466 --> 02:02:54,856 I didn't believe it. It seemed impossible 1311 02:02:55,111 --> 02:03:00,698 I'd read so many false reports about Germany in the American newspapers 1312 02:03:00,983 --> 02:03:04,502 I thought it was lies, so I said so 1313 02:03:04,858 --> 02:03:10,712 Its nothing true, what the American newspapers write about the Nazis 1314 02:03:10,888 --> 02:03:15,742 I couldn't believe it but, when I got to New York. I saw huge headlines 1315 02:03:15,896 --> 02:03:21,486 One page said "Synagogues burnt down, shops looted. Jews persecuted" 1316 02:03:21,782 --> 02:03:23,771 On the next page: "Riefenstahl says..." 1317 02:03:23,913 --> 02:03:27,406 Its nothing true, what the American newspapers write about the Nazis 1318 02:03:27,542 --> 02:03:33,768 Whenever I was asked, I said "It can't be true. It's impossible" 1319 02:03:34,338 --> 02:03:36,198 KILL THE JEWS 1320 02:03:38,653 --> 02:03:43,655 Now you're going to ask me why I didn't leave Germany 1321 02:03:43,913 --> 02:03:47,166 You see, I loved my homeland 1322 02:03:47,424 --> 02:03:52,787 The ones who left were emigrants and people who'd been banned 1323 02:03:53,034 --> 02:03:57,519 I could work. I was free. I hoped it would never happen again 1324 02:03:57,663 --> 02:04:01,652 We all hoped it was an isolated event 1325 02:04:04,307 --> 02:04:08,034 All true art must imprint... 1326 02:04:08,305 --> 02:04:12,299 ...the stamp of beauty on itself 1327 02:04:13,527 --> 02:04:17,328 All that is healthy is right and natural 1328 02:04:17,478 --> 02:04:20,326 What is right and natural is beautiful 1329 02:04:23,024 --> 02:04:26,335 It's our task to discover true beauty 1330 02:04:27,741 --> 02:04:29,954 We must not be led astray... 1331 02:04:30,168 --> 02:04:32,908 ...by the mad, impudent drivel... 1332 02:04:33,088 --> 02:04:35,729 ...of effete literati who decry... 1333 02:04:35,885 --> 02:04:38,783 ...the natural and beautiful as kitsch 1334 02:04:39,796 --> 02:04:41,767 The pictures were awful 1335 02:04:42,064 --> 02:04:44,464 They were all kitsch 1336 02:04:44,611 --> 02:04:47,206 I hardly saw a picture I liked 1337 02:04:47,467 --> 02:04:53,233 I was very disappointed at the time because my great love was modern art 1338 02:04:53,379 --> 02:04:58,500 Along with the French Impressionists and Cranach 1339 02:04:58,644 --> 02:05:01,565 But what the National Socialists... 1340 02:05:01,832 --> 02:05:07,088 ...considered - or called or admired as art - was for me kitsch 1341 02:05:07,386 --> 02:05:11,089 EXHIBITION OF DEGENERATE ART ADMISSION FREE 1342 02:05:11,949 --> 02:05:17,929 Pure German artistic sensibility means nothing to a rootless Jew 1343 02:05:18,218 --> 02:05:22,625 What he calls art must titillate as depraved senses 1344 02:05:22,888 --> 02:05:26,570 It must be cloaked in corruption as sickness 1345 02:05:26,702 --> 02:05:30,609 It must be unnatural, grotesque, perverse... 1346 02:05:30,885 --> 02:05:32,159 ...or pathological 1347 02:05:34,217 --> 02:05:36,382 These febrile fantasies... 1348 02:05:36,526 --> 02:05:37,928 ...of incurably sick minds... 1349 02:05:38,194 --> 02:05:41,720 ...were once flaunted before the public by Jewish art critics... 1350 02:05:41,838 --> 02:05:46,097 ...as the highest form of artistic expression 1351 02:05:46,363 --> 02:05:49,500 Surely speeches like this would've made any sensitive artist 1352 02:05:49,566 --> 02:05:51,076 stop and ponder 1353 02:05:51,471 --> 02:05:55,238 After everything that had happened it was the least one could expect 1354 02:05:57,002 --> 02:06:03,086 Hitler made a speech about art and it was so wrong that I thought: 1355 02:06:03,332 --> 02:06:09,184 "If he can be so wrong and yet sound so convincing about art - 1356 02:06:09,449 --> 02:06:12,894 "...so convincing many believed him - 1357 02:06:13,135 --> 02:06:16,426 "...maybe he's making political mistakes too" 1358 02:06:16,574 --> 02:06:20,685 That's when I began to have real doubts 1359 02:06:20,921 --> 02:06:27,134 I became much more critical when I listened to his speeches... 1360 02:06:27,686 --> 02:06:31,981 ...but I must admit I was never an opponent 1361 02:06:33,803 --> 02:06:37,256 In 1939, German troops marched into Poland 1362 02:06:37,871 --> 02:06:40,703 Riefenstahl was sent to the front as a war reporter 1363 02:06:54,824 --> 02:06:59,497 But on her first day there she witnessed the brutal ill treatment of Polish civilians 1364 02:06:59,991 --> 02:07:02,256 A photograph seems to testify to her horror 1365 02:07:03,419 --> 02:07:07,021 Riefenstahl made an official complaint to the Nazi General in charge 1366 02:07:07,137 --> 02:07:09,087 And left Poland immediately 1367 02:07:11,845 --> 02:07:15,506 In August 1940, the German troops marched into Paris 1368 02:07:15,910 --> 02:07:17,978 The Blitzkrieg in the west was over 1369 02:07:22,253 --> 02:07:24,895 Riefenstahl sent a Euphoric telegram to the Führer 1370 02:07:27,733 --> 02:07:32,871 Mein Führer, it is with indescribable joy, deep emotion and warm gratitude, 1371 02:07:33,250 --> 02:07:36,470 that we share your greatest and Germany's greatest victory, 1372 02:07:37,146 --> 02:07:39,400 the entry of German troops into Paris 1373 02:07:39,776 --> 02:07:42,621 Your deeds exceed the power of human imagination 1374 02:07:43,151 --> 02:07:45,606 they are without equal in the history of mankind, 1375 02:07:45,887 --> 02:07:47,286 how can we ever thank you? 1376 02:07:47,813 --> 02:07:52,065 Simply to offer you my congratulations is an inadequate expression of the feelings 1377 02:07:52,065 --> 02:07:53,380 that have stirred me 1378 02:07:54,112 --> 02:07:56,452 I didn't send the telegram... 1379 02:07:56,713 --> 02:08:01,712 ...because our troops were in France, and because of our victory... 1380 02:08:01,947 --> 02:08:07,656 ...but because we thought the war was over. We were in a frenzy of joy 1381 02:08:07,904 --> 02:08:12,814 For three days the bells rang and people kissed on the streets 1382 02:08:13,047 --> 02:08:16,186 We all believed this terrible war was over 1383 02:08:16,449 --> 02:08:21,911 It was in this mood that I sent Hitler my enthusiastic telegram 1384 02:08:29,652 --> 02:08:32,349 However there was no question of peace now. 1385 02:08:32,748 --> 02:08:36,488 after Germany's attack on Russia the conflict in Europe escalated 1386 02:08:36,624 --> 02:08:38,332 and became a World War 1387 02:08:44,629 --> 02:08:47,150 But Riefenstahl has retreated to the mountains again 1388 02:08:47,747 --> 02:08:50,450 She had begun work on Tiefland, the lowlands 1389 02:08:50,530 --> 02:08:52,634 A film version of d'Albert's opera 1390 02:09:06,226 --> 02:09:08,248 It was forced on me... 1391 02:09:08,538 --> 02:09:14,114 ...because I wanted to keep my head down and avoid making war films 1392 02:09:14,347 --> 02:09:17,041 "Tiefland" was a neutral subject 1393 02:09:17,286 --> 02:09:20,376 Since "Olympia" had paid off... 1394 02:09:20,750 --> 02:09:25,871 ...I was completely free and had enough money to make a film... 1395 02:09:26,118 --> 02:09:29,119 ...from a purely artistic perspective 1396 02:09:35,409 --> 02:09:38,689 Once again, Riefenstahl had an opportunity to dance. 1397 02:09:39,255 --> 02:09:42,148 Set in Spain, the story tackles the social conflict 1398 02:09:42,148 --> 02:09:44,255 between farmers and land owners 1399 02:10:00,490 --> 02:10:04,239 When the production was later moved to Bavaria, they needed characters 1400 02:10:04,239 --> 02:10:05,783 who looked Mediterranean 1401 02:10:07,141 --> 02:10:11,481 Gypsies were brought in from a Gypsy concentration camp near Salzburg 1402 02:10:11,849 --> 02:10:13,912 to be used as extras 1403 02:10:15,313 --> 02:10:18,788 This is one of the main accusations that continues to be levelled 1404 02:10:18,788 --> 02:10:20,824 at Riefenstahl to this day 1405 02:10:25,407 --> 02:10:30,431 List of extras from detention camp in Leopoldskron 1406 02:10:47,468 --> 02:10:51,384 With Hitler's support at the beginning of the project, Riefenstahl was given 1407 02:10:49,432 --> 02:10:50,986 {\a8}Come to the castle. 1408 02:10:50,986 --> 02:10:52,761 {\a8}She shall dance for me 1409 02:10:51,384 --> 02:10:55,346 as much foreign currency as she needed to start filming in Spain 1410 02:10:56,115 --> 02:10:58,546 But the production was dogged by misfortune 1411 02:10:59,886 --> 02:11:02,631 It was a disaster from the start 1412 02:11:02,901 --> 02:11:08,366 We began by looking for our locations in Spain... 1413 02:11:08,585 --> 02:11:11,047 ...to keep costs down 1414 02:11:11,358 --> 02:11:15,288 But the war came and we couldn't stay in Spain 1415 02:11:15,536 --> 02:11:18,691 Our crew left by the very last plane 1416 02:11:18,931 --> 02:11:23,584 We then had to build all the sets with mountains behind 1417 02:11:23,838 --> 02:11:28,018 We had to build an entire Bavarian village. It was very hard 1418 02:11:28,255 --> 02:11:33,488 Then the snow came and destroyed the village and it had to be rebuilt 1419 02:11:33,684 --> 02:11:39,276 As we weren't part of the war effort, we waited 2 years for a studio 1420 02:11:39,533 --> 02:11:45,264 We had to tear our sets down so propaganda films could be made 1421 02:12:15,533 --> 02:12:20,092 Many of these look like paintings. How did you achieve this effect? 1422 02:12:20,211 --> 02:12:24,079 It was my intention, with this film... 1423 02:12:24,328 --> 02:12:27,734 ...to concentrate on the visual... 1424 02:12:27,866 --> 02:12:30,769 ...and maintain the art of filming in black and white 1425 02:12:30,902 --> 02:12:35,505 At that time there was a big switch to colour 1426 02:12:35,629 --> 02:12:40,056 Most films were in colour and hardly anything was in black and white 1427 02:12:40,310 --> 02:12:43,725 Black and white is a special kind of art, like graphic art 1428 02:12:43,978 --> 02:12:45,752 I wanted to make a film... 1429 02:12:46,028 --> 02:12:51,164 ...which would prove there are effects in black and white... 1430 02:12:51,436 --> 02:12:55,291 ...that can't be bettered - or achieved at all - with colour 1431 02:13:07,605 --> 02:13:09,128 God be with you, Pedro 1432 02:13:09,366 --> 02:13:11,336 Good day to you, Nando! 1433 02:13:12,845 --> 02:13:17,260 - I'm glad to be up here again - You're up from the Deep Valley? 1434 02:13:19,015 --> 02:13:24,546 I've brought flour and salt. Up here, Pedro, I feel so much freer 1435 02:13:24,790 --> 02:13:26,994 I worked a lot with filters 1436 02:13:27,134 --> 02:13:33,149 Here I used an orange filter so this shot - I remember clearly... 1437 02:13:33,428 --> 02:13:36,825 ...had to have an aperture of around 3.2... 1438 02:13:37,065 --> 02:13:41,463 - For depth... - No, for an airy, atmospheric effect 1439 02:14:06,396 --> 02:14:11,408 In my films I always made sure the men... 1440 02:14:11,675 --> 02:14:14,646 ...actors or not, were lit differently... 1441 02:14:14,907 --> 02:14:16,323 ...from the women 1442 02:14:16,459 --> 02:14:18,253 They were lit... 1443 02:14:18,544 --> 02:14:21,532 ...from the side so their features stood out 1444 02:14:21,875 --> 02:14:26,703 Whereas, what's important with women is to make them look... 1445 02:14:26,940 --> 02:14:29,300 ...young and lovely 1446 02:14:29,530 --> 02:14:33,669 The same lighting can make a woman look... 1447 02:14:33,945 --> 02:14:39,548 ...20 years youngers or olders, depending on the angle 1448 02:14:42,412 --> 02:14:44,213 Make yourself beautiful 1449 02:15:06,462 --> 02:15:08,626 That's how you must look 1450 02:15:09,433 --> 02:15:13,099 With a young woman, who must look beautiful... 1451 02:15:13,253 --> 02:15:16,600 ...you need a very soft light from the front 1452 02:15:16,744 --> 02:15:22,499 No side-lighting at all, so no facial lines or flaws are visible 1453 02:15:22,768 --> 02:15:26,720 The only really pretty subjects to photograph are babies 1454 02:15:26,995 --> 02:15:29,045 They've absolutely no wrinkles 1455 02:15:29,209 --> 02:15:33,107 Even if a woman has only slight lines on her face... 1456 02:15:33,370 --> 02:15:36,662 ...they'll appear worse on film 1457 02:15:37,205 --> 02:15:41,654 Lighting is very important 1458 02:15:45,538 --> 02:15:49,456 Marlene Dietrich always had the same lighting 1459 02:15:49,583 --> 02:15:53,653 Same lighting with a lamp right above her 1460 02:15:53,907 --> 02:15:59,647 It shone down on her face, gave her shadows, and made her look thin 1461 02:15:59,937 --> 02:16:03,005 Another woman would need different lighting 1462 02:16:03,341 --> 02:16:04,631 What kind did you need? 1463 02:16:04,892 --> 02:16:11,048 I needed a soft front light - quite high, but not as high as Marlene's 1464 02:16:11,197 --> 02:16:16,503 I didn't want to look as gaunt as her but I did need soft front-lighting 1465 02:16:19,872 --> 02:16:21,562 Wait till I'm sitting 1466 02:16:21,816 --> 02:16:25,522 I just want to see what I need 1467 02:16:28,861 --> 02:16:33,253 Better go in a bit closer 1468 02:16:43,098 --> 02:16:47,359 To achieve this picturesque effect... 1469 02:16:47,622 --> 02:16:52,941 ...you must look for subjects which make a composition in themselves 1470 02:16:53,209 --> 02:16:56,163 You can't set up a camera just anywhere 1471 02:16:56,410 --> 02:17:02,080 Outdoors, the aperture is generally reduced because there's so much light 1472 02:17:02,344 --> 02:17:07,266 This gives a sharp focus and robs the shot of air and atmosphere 1473 02:17:07,520 --> 02:17:12,208 To avoid this sharpness and still keep a feeling of realism... 1474 02:17:12,475 --> 02:17:15,055 ...I used very strong filters 1475 02:17:15,690 --> 02:17:19,701 I could filter out the light without reducing the aperture... 1476 02:17:19,972 --> 02:17:23,701 ...and achieve this picturesque effect - sometimes with coloured filters 1477 02:17:35,495 --> 02:17:39,977 The hut wasn't built and then filmed 1478 02:17:40,242 --> 02:17:44,953 First we chose it, selected the background and set up the camera 1479 02:17:45,088 --> 02:17:47,851 Then, using the eye of the camera... 1480 02:17:48,124 --> 02:17:52,992 ...we incorporated the hut into the whole composition 1481 02:17:53,125 --> 02:17:57,204 That's how we achieved this harmonious effect 1482 02:18:06,591 --> 02:18:11,320 - Can I have something to drink? - Yes, I've plenty of milk 1483 02:18:12,048 --> 02:18:15,844 The film was almost finished when the war ended 1484 02:18:16,140 --> 02:18:20,539 Everything was carted off to France where it lay for 10 years 1485 02:18:20,777 --> 02:18:25,363 The French hacked it about and tried to make it into a film 1486 02:18:25,648 --> 02:18:27,579 A lot of footage was lost 1487 02:18:27,888 --> 02:18:32,425 I had to employ several lawyers to get the material back 1488 02:18:32,707 --> 02:18:36,764 Then I had to put it together. It was quite a saga 1489 02:18:38,653 --> 02:18:43,335 While Riefenstahl was working on Tiefland, the war entered its final phase 1490 02:18:59,761 --> 02:19:02,194 As the bombs rained down on Berlin, 1491 02:19:02,585 --> 02:19:06,228 Riefenstahl took her production company, and set off for the Tirol 1492 02:19:10,341 --> 02:19:14,155 She acquired a farmhouse at the foot of the Wilder Kaiser mountain near Kitzbühel, 1493 02:19:14,526 --> 02:19:17,746 an idyllic refuge, in the midst of total war 1494 02:19:21,966 --> 02:19:24,020 Here she continued to edit Tiefland, 1495 02:19:24,252 --> 02:19:26,143 right to the final days of the war 1496 02:19:26,727 --> 02:19:27,915 Obsessed with her work, 1497 02:19:27,915 --> 02:19:32,506 she can hardly to have heard the allied bombers flying over daily on their way to Berlin 1498 02:19:33,711 --> 02:19:36,328 At what point was her image of Hitler shattered? 1499 02:19:39,287 --> 02:19:43,046 My image of Hitler was shattered much too late 1500 02:19:43,301 --> 02:19:45,958 Right at the end of the war 1501 02:19:46,220 --> 02:19:50,262 When I saw he wasn't visiting the bombed cities... 1502 02:19:50,593 --> 02:19:54,119 ...and seeing the misery for himself 1503 02:19:54,508 --> 02:19:59,110 And that he even recruited old people and children for the 'Volkssturm'... 1504 02:19:59,365 --> 02:20:03,111 ...I was appalled. His image was totally shattered 1505 02:20:16,043 --> 02:20:18,208 When did you last see Hitler? 1506 02:20:18,467 --> 02:20:23,619 After my war-marriage, which was on 21st March, 1944 1507 02:20:25,822 --> 02:20:28,592 My husband and I were invited... 1508 02:20:28,717 --> 02:20:31,254 ...to the Berghof 1509 02:20:33,544 --> 02:20:35,338 That was the last time 1510 02:20:35,645 --> 02:20:39,862 He was very distracted and kept up a continual monologue 1511 02:20:40,132 --> 02:20:46,268 He no longer seemed like a man in touch with reality, more like a ghost 1512 02:20:48,304 --> 02:20:50,143 The final battle for Berlin 1513 02:21:00,497 --> 02:21:04,408 By the beginning of 1945, it was all over for Germany 1514 02:21:04,829 --> 02:21:06,884 The country lay in ruins 1515 02:21:15,212 --> 02:21:18,924 First French and then American troops marched into the Tirol 1516 02:21:19,102 --> 02:21:21,354 And Riefenstahl was arrested in Kitzbühel 1517 02:21:25,631 --> 02:21:31,771 It was a time that beggars description 1518 02:21:32,295 --> 02:21:38,485 So sad, so dreadful. All our ideals were shattered 1519 02:21:39,249 --> 02:21:42,196 One just could not comprehend it all 1520 02:21:42,496 --> 02:21:47,859 It was a terrible fall into the abyss 1521 02:21:49,243 --> 02:21:54,256 It was only when I was interrogated by the Americans in Dachau... 1522 02:21:54,533 --> 02:21:57,619 ...that I saw pictures of the camps 1523 02:21:57,852 --> 02:22:03,265 I'd never seen any pictures or heard anything about them 1524 02:22:17,256 --> 02:22:22,943 It was such a terrible shock 1525 02:22:23,209 --> 02:22:26,153 I couldn't believe... 1526 02:22:26,283 --> 02:22:29,729 ...human beings could do such things 1527 02:22:29,890 --> 02:22:35,807 And these things had been done on Hitler's orders 1528 02:22:42,030 --> 02:22:48,089 It was quite a time before I could believe it 1529 02:22:48,237 --> 02:22:53,204 And, when I did, my life fell apart because I'd believed in Hitler 1530 02:23:16,507 --> 02:23:18,634 It was so shattering... 1531 02:23:18,935 --> 02:23:23,623 ...that one's own life seemed utterly unimportant 1532 02:23:23,850 --> 02:23:26,920 There were only two possibilities 1533 02:23:27,175 --> 02:23:33,180 Either to live with this appalling burden of guild weighing us down... 1534 02:23:33,448 --> 02:23:34,561 ...or to die 1535 02:23:34,966 --> 02:23:37,935 It was a constant dilemma, to live or to die 1536 02:23:42,521 --> 02:23:48,058 This bloody struggle had so far caused 60 million human lives in Europe alone 1537 02:23:52,811 --> 02:23:57,099 After you discovered the crimes of the Third Reich... 1538 02:23:57,333 --> 02:24:00,401 ...did you look on your work differently? 1539 02:24:00,641 --> 02:24:06,729 No. I was just appalled and confused to have lived through that period 1540 02:24:07,779 --> 02:24:11,097 I did look at it differently... 1541 02:24:11,457 --> 02:24:16,845 ...to the extent that I put myself into the minds of the victims 1542 02:24:17,089 --> 02:24:23,232 How awful for them to see those swastikas, the SS men and the SA - 1543 02:24:23,518 --> 02:24:29,315 ...people we'd never thought of as criminals 1544 02:24:29,452 --> 02:24:35,610 It was a breakdown that's actually been permanent 1545 02:24:35,986 --> 02:24:38,823 I've never recovered from the horror 1546 02:25:03,713 --> 02:25:05,397 People say of me: 1547 02:25:05,539 --> 02:25:10,793 "She's blind. She doesn't want to know 1548 02:25:11,051 --> 02:25:13,634 "She'll always be a Nazi" 1549 02:25:13,783 --> 02:25:17,694 But none of this applied to me 1550 02:25:18,057 --> 02:25:22,671 I was never a Nazi, so I can't be one still 1551 02:25:22,805 --> 02:25:28,944 I condemn all that happened but it doesn't help. They don't believe me 1552 02:25:31,177 --> 02:25:35,647 At the denazification trial in Freiburg, Leni Riefenstahl's connection with the 1553 02:25:35,647 --> 02:25:38,677 National Socialists was scrutinized closely 1554 02:25:39,285 --> 02:25:42,850 Most of the witnesses who testified at the trial are still alive 1555 02:25:43,372 --> 02:25:46,198 and continue to confirm the statements they made then 1556 02:25:47,207 --> 02:25:51,375 Riefenstahl's trial attracted huge attention from the world's press 1557 02:25:52,128 --> 02:25:56,555 Finally the court declared that she couldn't be condemned as a Nazi 1558 02:25:56,897 --> 02:25:59,286 but classed as a sympathizer 1559 02:26:00,675 --> 02:26:05,615 The judges found no political activity in support of the Nazi regime 1560 02:26:05,791 --> 02:26:07,496 that would justify punishment 1561 02:26:07,966 --> 02:26:10,662 There were many however, who remembered Riefenstahl's 1562 02:26:10,776 --> 02:26:12,809 prominent position in the Third Reich 1563 02:26:12,984 --> 02:26:14,623 and were unhappy with the verdict 1564 02:26:15,940 --> 02:26:20,625 Character assassination is all too easy 1565 02:26:20,852 --> 02:26:23,277 I've been attached countless times 1566 02:26:23,596 --> 02:26:28,176 The most incredible things have been said about me 1567 02:26:28,334 --> 02:26:32,587 For instance, that I was Hitler's mistress, his lover... 1568 02:26:32,827 --> 02:26:37,520 Goebbel's lover, or Goering's - or of all of them 1569 02:26:37,670 --> 02:26:42,216 That I'd used gypsies from a concentration camp for a film... 1570 02:26:42,517 --> 02:26:44,098 ...which I never did 1571 02:26:44,245 --> 02:26:47,094 All this was stated... 1572 02:26:47,338 --> 02:26:53,431 ...to try and finish me and ensure I never worked again 1573 02:26:54,783 --> 02:26:57,044 After the war, for over 20 years, 1574 02:26:57,271 --> 02:27:00,912 Riefenstahl lived alone with her mother in an attic in Munich 1575 02:27:01,424 --> 02:27:03,098 She was never to make another film 1576 02:27:07,022 --> 02:27:11,278 Despite this, she still receives fanmails from all over the world 1577 02:27:11,816 --> 02:27:15,256 For in the 1960s, she made a well publicized comeback 1578 02:27:16,065 --> 02:27:19,002 In her travels she had discovered a new continent 1579 02:27:19,113 --> 02:27:21,589 and a fresh inspiration in Africa 1580 02:27:30,136 --> 02:27:35,176 In 1962, Riefenstahl travelled to the southern Sudan to visit the Nuba 1581 02:27:35,447 --> 02:27:38,045 a remote community of around a 100 tribes 1582 02:27:38,172 --> 02:27:40,640 who'd had a little contact with the outside world 1583 02:27:53,521 --> 02:27:56,634 Her love of Africa had begun some years earlier, 1584 02:27:56,634 --> 02:28:00,802 when she visited Kenya to make a film about the modern day slave trade 1585 02:28:02,248 --> 02:28:05,848 The film was called Black Cargo, and was never finished 1586 02:28:06,678 --> 02:28:11,161 On her way back to Nairobi, Riefenstahl was involved in a major car crash 1587 02:28:11,240 --> 02:28:12,288 and nearly killed 1588 02:28:13,177 --> 02:28:18,247 It was a grave setback, but she never lost her passion for the dark continent 1589 02:28:23,130 --> 02:28:27,550 Her first book of photographs of the Nuba was published in 1973 1590 02:29:00,994 --> 02:29:03,991 How did your fascination with the Nuba begin? 1591 02:29:04,284 --> 02:29:05,706 With a photo 1592 02:29:05,907 --> 02:29:11,080 An ordinary photo that I happened to see in an old issue of 'Stern'... 1593 02:29:11,316 --> 02:29:17,054 ...when I was lying in hospital in Nairobi, after a car accident 1594 02:29:17,193 --> 02:29:21,960 This photo, which I always keep on my desk... 1595 02:29:22,231 --> 02:29:26,940 ...where I'm working with the Nuba, had changed my life 1596 02:29:27,520 --> 02:29:30,355 It shows two wrestlers... 1597 02:29:30,604 --> 02:29:35,310 Nubas, just what I wanted for my film 'Black Cargo' 1598 02:29:35,566 --> 02:29:41,037 I needed men like that but in Kenya and Tanzania I couldn't find any 1599 02:29:41,318 --> 02:29:43,850 The Masai were slim and graceful... 1600 02:29:44,118 --> 02:29:48,929 ...but black athletes of the kind I needed weren't to be found 1601 02:29:49,189 --> 02:29:52,354 So I went looking for them 1602 02:29:54,056 --> 02:29:58,663 At the age of 60, Riefenstahl went to live alone with the Nuba 1603 02:29:58,778 --> 02:29:59,741 for eight months 1604 02:30:07,595 --> 02:30:12,985 This is the little bed where I slept for months... 1605 02:30:13,119 --> 02:30:18,791 ...with hundreds of wild dogs around me 1606 02:30:19,089 --> 02:30:22,529 Strangely enough, I was happy 1607 02:30:49,515 --> 02:30:53,301 Wrestlers from different tribes assembled to play for a wrestling festival 1608 02:31:25,838 --> 02:31:29,938 Funded by a friend, August Arnold, who ran a camera company in Munich, 1609 02:31:30,300 --> 02:31:32,865 Riefenstahl took both photographs and film footage 1610 02:31:32,865 --> 02:31:34,750 of the Nuba during his stay 1611 02:31:36,021 --> 02:31:39,326 Her Nuba footage has never been shown publicly before 1612 02:31:40,142 --> 02:31:43,598 But it was her Nuba photographs that brought her back to prominence 1613 02:31:58,992 --> 02:32:04,679 The photos weren't so important. I went there to get to know the people 1614 02:32:04,804 --> 02:32:09,590 But, as always when I'm travelling, I took a few shots 1615 02:32:09,792 --> 02:32:13,891 Whatever appealed to me - their lifestyle, the way they moved... 1616 02:32:14,020 --> 02:32:18,358 ...their physical types, their faces, their rituals 1617 02:32:18,600 --> 02:32:22,563 I never thought I'd publish the results 1618 02:32:39,884 --> 02:32:42,496 The Seraba, a herdsmen's encampment 1619 02:32:50,169 --> 02:32:52,367 The young men would live in the Seraba encampment, 1620 02:32:52,367 --> 02:32:55,256 cut-off from the village, and prepare themselves for 1621 02:32:55,256 --> 02:32:57,221 the traditional wrestling contests 1622 02:33:00,006 --> 02:33:02,623 The adolescents go through an initiation rite 1623 02:33:02,975 --> 02:33:05,641 Only then can they take part in the wrestling 1624 02:33:06,403 --> 02:33:09,321 As a mark of their membership of the Seraba, the young men 1625 02:33:09,321 --> 02:33:12,114 cover themselves with ash and paint their bodies 1626 02:33:12,816 --> 02:33:15,078 The ash has a ritual significance. 1627 02:33:15,566 --> 02:33:18,747 It is meant to give them strength and beauty 1628 02:33:20,509 --> 02:33:24,676 The Nuba were strange beings to me 1629 02:33:25,968 --> 02:33:32,171 I'd never met native Africans before 1630 02:33:32,433 --> 02:33:35,439 They surprised me by their character 1631 02:33:37,445 --> 02:33:39,256 They were poor 1632 02:33:39,552 --> 02:33:44,764 They only had their land and a little water but they were happy 1633 02:33:44,918 --> 02:33:50,235 They weren't suspicious. We soon got to know each other using a few words 1634 02:33:50,387 --> 02:33:54,029 They were so warm and cheerful 1635 02:33:54,313 --> 02:33:59,049 It made me think "How little one needs to be happy" 1636 02:33:59,184 --> 02:34:04,039 I've often been back and I've always felt at ease there 1637 02:34:15,619 --> 02:34:19,685 Over 3000 metres of film footage of the Nuba is stored in 1638 02:34:19,685 --> 02:34:21,582 Leni Riefenstahl's basement 1639 02:34:22,149 --> 02:34:25,700 But the film about the Nuba, a pet project for so many years 1640 02:34:25,954 --> 02:34:27,443 has never been completed 1641 02:34:28,373 --> 02:34:32,020 It is true that some important material was destroyed during processing 1642 02:34:32,726 --> 02:34:37,424 But what prevents such an enthusiastic editor from cutting her own work 1643 02:34:40,636 --> 02:34:43,531 Just before setting off on her second Nuba expedition 1644 02:34:43,774 --> 02:34:46,169 Riefenstahl was to have a decisive encounter 1645 02:34:46,520 --> 02:34:48,252 She met Horst Kettner, 1646 02:34:48,824 --> 02:34:52,277 40 years her junior, he nevertheless became her companion 1647 02:34:52,508 --> 02:34:55,448 working and travelling with her as he still does today 1648 02:34:58,346 --> 02:35:02,314 For the next Nuba expedition, Riefenstahl would be better equipped 1649 02:35:02,830 --> 02:35:04,283 Horst would be her cameraman 1650 02:35:05,181 --> 02:35:07,627 She had trained him herself in the course of her travels 1651 02:35:59,593 --> 02:36:02,094 A wrestling festival among the Masaki Nuba 1652 02:36:02,826 --> 02:36:05,591 These Masaki Nuba wrestling festivals begin 1653 02:36:05,591 --> 02:36:07,695 after first harvest in November 1654 02:36:07,695 --> 02:36:09,998 and last until the end of March 1655 02:36:14,370 --> 02:36:16,602 The contests never end brutally 1656 02:36:16,872 --> 02:36:20,140 The wrestler who throws his opponent on his back wins 1657 02:36:20,418 --> 02:36:22,931 There is a referee to oversee the fair play 1658 02:36:48,962 --> 02:36:51,961 A 160 miles away, is another tribe 1659 02:36:52,151 --> 02:36:54,751 with very different customs and language 1660 02:37:03,044 --> 02:37:08,253 These are the Nuba of Kao. They're Nuba too but quite different 1661 02:37:09,376 --> 02:37:14,388 Their nature is quite unlike the Masaki Nuba 1662 02:37:15,056 --> 02:37:18,445 They're wild. Not as peaceable as the other Nuba 1663 02:37:18,583 --> 02:37:22,689 It's difficult to work with them but worth the effort 1664 02:37:22,812 --> 02:37:24,494 They're artists 1665 02:37:24,787 --> 02:37:30,162 More gifted than any other tribe I've seen 1666 02:37:30,568 --> 02:37:32,574 They paint wonderful masks 1667 02:37:32,857 --> 02:37:37,511 Each one more interesting than the last 1668 02:37:37,654 --> 02:37:40,793 And they do them in just 20-30 minutes 1669 02:37:41,058 --> 02:37:42,454 What are they for? 1670 02:37:42,965 --> 02:37:48,087 Purely to beautify themselves. It's just decoration 1671 02:37:48,260 --> 02:37:54,051 There's a ritual symbolism to the signs found on many of them 1672 02:37:54,204 --> 02:37:55,378 For instance... 1673 02:37:55,557 --> 02:37:58,412 ...some have exaggerated their eyes 1674 02:37:58,664 --> 02:38:01,990 They want to make their eyes seem larger 1675 02:38:02,274 --> 02:38:07,562 And on others the lines are stylised representations... 1676 02:38:07,845 --> 02:38:12,809 ...of gazelles and other animals they know 1677 02:38:21,457 --> 02:38:26,911 It's amazing. Every mask is different 1678 02:38:35,578 --> 02:38:41,797 I'm more attracted by an aesthetic subject than by an ugly one 1679 02:38:43,196 --> 02:38:46,482 I can't be creative with a negative subject 1680 02:38:46,775 --> 02:38:51,090 I only become creative and have ideas... 1681 02:38:51,247 --> 02:38:57,048 ...when dealing with something which stimulated my enthusiasm 1682 02:38:57,347 --> 02:38:59,674 That's been true of all my films 1683 02:39:00,943 --> 02:39:03,499 A dance ceremony of the Nuba of Kao 1684 02:39:04,035 --> 02:39:07,757 These ceremonies take place after the traditional knife contests 1685 02:39:11,036 --> 02:39:13,190 Only virgins are allowed to dance 1686 02:39:13,576 --> 02:39:16,229 The girls woo the fighters with their dancing 1687 02:39:22,207 --> 02:39:24,328 According to an American anthropologist 1688 02:39:24,937 --> 02:39:29,508 the Nuba consider their own bodies as the highest form of art 1689 02:40:18,970 --> 02:40:24,276 It's not just the masks of these Nuba that are interesting... 1690 02:40:24,597 --> 02:40:26,759 ...but also their hair decorations 1691 02:40:27,029 --> 02:40:31,530 Here you see, for example, this notch in the hair 1692 02:40:31,654 --> 02:40:37,285 And here too. That means he's a Kaduma - they're the only men... 1693 02:40:37,614 --> 02:40:39,483 ...allowed to fight 1694 02:40:44,924 --> 02:40:49,169 Comparing her famous Nuba photographs with the massive film footage, 1695 02:40:49,382 --> 02:40:54,061 it is easier to understand why her promised Nuba film never materialized 1696 02:40:54,817 --> 02:40:56,640 Working without a professional cameraman 1697 02:40:56,984 --> 02:40:59,787 and unable to dictate and influence all the actions, 1698 02:41:00,136 --> 02:41:05,541 Riefenstahl, the obsessive perfectionist couldn't be in total control of the material 1699 02:41:05,928 --> 02:41:08,811 and could not reach the aesthetic heights to which she aspired 1700 02:41:11,711 --> 02:41:15,030 You mean Susan Sontag? 1701 02:41:16,649 --> 02:41:20,989 It's a mystery to me... 1702 02:41:21,118 --> 02:41:25,109 ...how such an intelligent woman can talk such rubbish 1703 02:41:25,374 --> 02:41:27,177 I took these pictures... 1704 02:41:27,423 --> 02:41:31,500 ...of the Nuba, just as they live, unobserved, without posing 1705 02:41:31,732 --> 02:41:35,189 What can be fascist about that? I don't understand 1706 02:41:35,445 --> 02:41:39,528 Her involvement with the Nuba led once again to doubts about her intentions 1707 02:41:39,777 --> 02:41:41,605 and questions of her aesthetics 1708 02:41:42,068 --> 02:41:43,417 The cult of the body beautiful 1709 02:41:43,679 --> 02:41:46,278 The celebration of masculine power and strength 1710 02:41:46,706 --> 02:41:48,843 Riefenstahl had heard these reproaches before 1711 02:41:49,630 --> 02:41:51,528 It's a lot of rubbish 1712 02:41:51,819 --> 02:41:56,365 If you're living among such natural people and carry a camera... 1713 02:41:56,615 --> 02:41:59,095 ...and they don't want to be photographed... 1714 02:41:59,225 --> 02:42:05,370 ...you can still take shots because they get to know you 1715 02:42:05,616 --> 02:42:10,002 But what has that got to do with Strength and Beauty? 1716 02:42:10,254 --> 02:42:12,890 I've not changed these people 1717 02:42:19,354 --> 02:42:24,810 They're very healthy human beings. There's no sickness in the tribe 1718 02:42:25,054 --> 02:42:31,203 The old people sit in dark houses, in shadow, so you can't film them 1719 02:42:31,371 --> 02:42:35,585 Those who walk about outside are mainly young, healthy 1720 02:42:35,845 --> 02:42:39,461 Many also happen to be beautiful 1721 02:42:39,725 --> 02:42:42,635 But I didn't create them. God did 1722 02:43:03,022 --> 02:43:08,789 Have you ever thought how one might define a fascist aesthetic? 1723 02:43:09,058 --> 02:43:13,090 I don't understand the question. I've no concept of fascism... 1724 02:43:13,262 --> 02:43:16,649 ...unless it be the Hitler salute... 1725 02:43:16,820 --> 02:43:21,879 ...or the fascist salute with the raised right hand 1726 02:43:22,030 --> 02:43:25,114 - I can't imagine anything - No visual aesthetic? 1727 02:43:25,248 --> 02:43:29,775 No, I've no idea what that might mean 1728 02:44:27,754 --> 02:44:31,561 In the 1970s, Riefenstahl discovered another refuge 1729 02:44:31,663 --> 02:44:34,532 far from the madding crowd, underwater 1730 02:44:43,695 --> 02:44:49,775 Horst, could you kindly bring me the reel with the sharks in close-up? 1731 02:44:59,832 --> 02:45:04,989 We've a shot somewhere of Herbert... 1732 02:45:05,374 --> 02:45:08,671 ...with a fish in his mouth and the shark snatching it 1733 02:45:08,975 --> 02:45:10,715 I'd like that shot 1734 02:45:14,289 --> 02:45:18,038 I think it's in Reel 3. I'll fetch it for you 1735 02:45:18,312 --> 02:45:19,916 Please, it's important 1736 02:46:12,600 --> 02:46:16,633 At the age of 70, Riefenstahl passed her scuba diving test 1737 02:46:17,032 --> 02:46:18,889 In order to be allowed to take the test at all, 1738 02:46:19,387 --> 02:46:21,074 she had to claim to be only 50 1739 02:46:21,889 --> 02:46:24,084 Since then, she has dived with Horst in some of 1740 02:46:24,084 --> 02:46:27,048 the world's most spectacular underwater locations 1741 02:46:33,026 --> 02:46:35,147 She trained Horst to be her cameraman 1742 02:46:35,579 --> 02:46:38,455 Horst uses an underwater video camera that is protected 1743 02:46:38,455 --> 02:46:40,691 by a casing designed by himself 1744 02:46:43,690 --> 02:46:46,553 They are now working on an ambitious underwater epic 1745 02:46:46,825 --> 02:46:49,164 that would probably prove to be their last 1746 02:46:51,904 --> 02:46:56,760 How long can we stay underwater? 1747 02:46:57,190 --> 02:47:01,654 - Twenty minutes maximum - We'll need to shoot all the scenes 1748 02:47:11,237 --> 02:47:15,546 As always, Riefenstahl takes stills and supervises the lighting 1749 02:47:15,779 --> 02:47:17,693 while Horst operates the camera 1750 02:47:34,868 --> 02:47:39,282 At the age of 90, Riefenstahl is probably the oldest diver in the world 1751 02:47:39,829 --> 02:47:42,647 Her increasing concern about the threat to marine life 1752 02:47:42,922 --> 02:47:45,566 has led her to become a member of Greenpeace 1753 02:47:48,286 --> 02:47:50,514 Give me the mouthpiece 1754 02:48:05,318 --> 02:48:08,203 - There's no air in it - Yes, look 1755 02:52:12,415 --> 02:52:14,143 It was great 1756 02:52:26,546 --> 02:52:29,855 The 'crown of thorns' we filmed today was good 1757 02:52:37,828 --> 02:52:41,319 But you didn't hold the camera steady 1758 02:52:41,566 --> 02:52:45,480 I was being pushed by the current 1759 02:52:49,030 --> 02:52:51,315 The visibility is very poor 1760 02:52:52,932 --> 02:52:56,268 We should really shoot it again 1761 02:52:56,538 --> 02:53:00,425 - There was too much plankton - That's quite good 1762 02:53:03,657 --> 02:53:06,713 Well done. That's a good shot 1763 02:53:07,280 --> 02:53:10,081 I tried a bit of side-lighting 1764 02:53:10,334 --> 02:53:13,474 But you kept telling me to take the lamp away 1765 02:53:13,606 --> 02:53:16,304 I meant the one with the blue filter 1766 02:53:16,607 --> 02:53:19,270 I see. You wanted the red 1767 02:53:19,434 --> 02:53:24,487 That's very good. I like that very much 1768 02:53:27,570 --> 02:53:30,185 This is too dark, as if you had under-exposed it 1769 02:53:30,316 --> 02:53:33,943 - That was deliberate - Why deliberate? It was too dark 1770 02:53:40,293 --> 02:53:42,168 Now that's a good shot 1771 02:53:49,333 --> 02:53:53,263 Diving up a depth of a 100 ft. they encounter a giant stingray 1772 02:53:53,899 --> 02:53:56,238 One touch of its tail would be lethal 1773 02:56:01,044 --> 02:56:06,366 That's really fantastic. We were so lucky 1774 02:56:07,105 --> 02:56:12,141 In 18 years' diving, we've never had that 1775 02:56:12,417 --> 02:56:14,584 We've never had it before 1776 02:56:15,263 --> 02:56:17,604 Is that the first or the second? 1777 02:56:17,874 --> 02:56:21,124 That's the big one eating 1778 02:56:38,694 --> 02:56:42,044 From great mountain heights and worldwide fame 1779 02:56:42,476 --> 02:56:46,243 Riefenstahl has descended in the twilight years of her life 1780 02:56:46,344 --> 02:56:48,105 to a silent world 1781 02:56:50,574 --> 02:56:54,275 It is no longer the noble human form that preoccupies her 1782 02:56:54,827 --> 02:56:57,750 but the exotic marine life of the underwater kingdom 1783 02:57:38,609 --> 02:57:43,364 Underwater, far from the public gaze is where she is happiest 1784 02:57:44,230 --> 02:57:47,478 But, even here she cannot escape 1785 02:57:47,478 --> 02:57:51,408 the long shadows cast by her past 1786 02:57:51,924 --> 02:57:53,319 I feel this country... 1787 02:57:53,584 --> 02:57:56,876 ...is still waiting for you to say publicly: 1788 02:57:57,137 --> 02:58:00,064 "I made a mistake. I'm sorry" 1789 02:58:00,605 --> 02:58:03,862 Being sorry isn't nearly enough 1790 02:58:04,130 --> 02:58:07,687 But I can't tear myself apart or destroy myself 1791 02:58:07,975 --> 02:58:13,012 It's so terrible. I've suffered anyway for over half a century 1792 02:58:13,300 --> 02:58:15,547 And it will never end, until I die 1793 02:58:15,847 --> 02:58:20,215 It's such an incredible burden, that to say sorry... 1794 02:58:22,329 --> 02:58:27,223 It's inadequate, it expresses too little 1795 02:58:27,494 --> 02:58:32,489 Doesn't it hurt to read again and again that you're irredeemable? 1796 02:58:32,771 --> 02:58:37,774 Of course it hurts. It makes me very, very sad 1797 02:58:38,033 --> 02:58:42,456 But because it never stops and people keep on saying it... 1798 02:58:42,591 --> 02:58:44,614 ...I have to live with it 1799 02:58:44,889 --> 02:58:47,745 It casts such a shadow over my life... 1800 02:58:47,889 --> 02:58:52,588 ...that death will be a blessed release 1801 02:58:53,145 --> 02:58:55,615 I feel people are expecting... 1802 02:58:55,866 --> 02:58:58,266 ...an admission of guilt from you 1803 02:58:58,926 --> 02:59:02,839 Well, what do you mean by that? What am I guilty of? 1804 02:59:02,971 --> 02:59:07,146 I can and do regret making the film of the 1934 Party Congress... 1805 02:59:07,387 --> 02:59:09,124 ...'Triumph of the Will' 1806 02:59:09,396 --> 02:59:14,416 I regret... no, I can't regret that I was alive in that period 1807 02:59:14,687 --> 02:59:20,289 But no words of anti-semitism ever passed my lips. Nor did I write any 1808 02:59:20,454 --> 02:59:24,818 I was never anti-semitic and I never joined the Nazi Party 1809 02:59:24,967 --> 02:59:27,712 So what am I guilty of? Tell me that 1810 02:59:27,846 --> 02:59:31,965 I didn't drop any atom bombs. I didn't denounce anyone 1811 02:59:32,126 --> 02:59:34,558 So where does my guilt lie?